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I almost made it through all of Cyseal, and for my own frustration I need to put the game down. As per usual, I want to make it clear that these are my opinions and I do not presume to apply this to everyone.

1. Story is good but generic

Divinity has fantastic writing, but the overall story is just too generic for me. Undead invading a city is ok and all, but there was just nothing that pulled me in. Someone is trying to resurrect and old mage. Again, just generic stuff.

2. Combat needs a serious tutorial

There are so many things in combat that I had to look up, or simply made no sense to me. I did not know you needed fire to clear poison and electricity clouds. I did not know that when you set things on fire and they had poison it would explode and hurt everything. Although you could get a skill for backstabbing is not explained how you backstab. I could go on but those are simple examples. and as an aside, so many times i would misclick, trying to click on an enemy model, only to have them move slightly or me fumble one pixel, accidentally tell my character to move, then they use half their turn walking.

3. Character Options work against you

I know the game is open-ended and character creation is supposed to reflect that, but like many games that have two open-ended of a character creation process I decided up creating ineffective rather than original characters. In more than one situation it would require having a character that has fire or ice or poison in order to be effective. In fact I do restart the game after putting in a solid 10 or 15 hours because I was unaware that you had to save up your skill points to advance your skills past a certain point (I know that there's a tooltip for but it was usually glossed over and I didn't know about it until it was too late).

4. The voice-overs are too much

Characters will be talking so much they would interrupt each other

5. Finding out enemies weakness was mostly trial and error

Although I had one character a party with loremaster, knowing enemies weaknesses was usually after loading a saved game. If my one character with loremaster was not in view of the enemy or I forgot to look at during their turn I was screwed and I can't go back because I can only look at them during that characters turn. Many times I would try blind a boss monster only to find out they could be blinded whereas other boss monsters could be blinded.

6. The inventory and merchant system was clunky

I understand that they wanted to be unique with how the inventory and merchant system were done, but I had the look of special guides just to figure out where to buy things I spent nearly an hour and a half in town, just trying to figure out how I can even upgrade my characters. And then having to spread the gold across multiple characters (which you have to adjust outside of the trade window) added nothing to the game and only added frustration in trying to buy items. It was a good effort but in my opinion it added nothing.

7. Quests and map layout do not guide you where you need to go

More than once I would go to areas that I was not meant to go to. I would be level 3 fighting characters that were level 7 and 8. I understand some people like this because it teaches you that you can go everywhere you want, but by the same token there was no indicator to say that this was a dangerous area, and the only way I could of known is by going and dying at than reloading the game. In addition the quest dialog were very poor at guiding you where to go next, with many quests requiring you to complete other quest before continuation. Again I had to consult several guides just to be able to navigate through the main story of the game not even approach anything that was difficult.

8. Encounter difficulty can have huge spikes

In addition to the encounters of has been on my level even ones that are within my level can have unmanageable spikes in difficulty. Because the monster AI is not consistent they would go after my weaker members and kill them in two hits, because they are not designed to take a lot of damage.

9. Henchmen are interchangeable

Unlike the blackout games of the past for each henchmen had an individual story and added much to the game all the henchmen in this one are completely interchangeable more than you care about other skills as they don't add it into the story or talk with you very much

10. The game is not designed to allow multiple viable playstyles

Over half of your time in Cyseal is spent fighting the undead, and as a result those that use witchcraft and scoundrel skills are completely ineffective. Anything with bleeding or poison just simply doesn't work and a lot of the scoundrel skills just didn't work well. Early on if you do Geo Mansour your first summons is a spider who deals a lot of poisoning but all the undead are immune to poison. Even worse is when you fight the burning skeletons because now poison, bleeding, AND fire are ineffective. As a result nights and fighters were greatly overpowered, and when you found enemies that were susceptible to those elements the characters who uses elements did not shine.


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Hello Castlemaster, welcome to the forums!

There are combat issues that Larian has taken note of and are working on an upgrade to the whole system. This is a huge undertaking that will take a few months.

The story gets different as you move on. Your in the beginning which seems like ordinary business of undead mobs attacking a town. It changes quite a bit later on past Cyseal.

I too had not realized that you needed to purchase skill books to learn abilities. This gave me a terrible first impression in beta. It does need to be worked on and should be part of the tutorial area.

The merchant system is based off Divine Divinity, where you are bartering and buying. It takes time to get used to. Though it saves you from selling stuff first, then buying stuff. I'll be honest, I had a hard time figuring this out back when Divine Divinity first came out and pleaded with them to ditch the system. After a while I got the hang of it and wish other games would adopt.

Combat does have spikes, some is intentional and some are bugs. Again, there is a combat rework in progress.

Henchmen are obsolete, gotta find the story driven companion characters. Especially Jahan, use him for crafting and blacksmithing.

As for quest and map "guides" this game is designed for you to explore and challenge the player to find out where to go. It is based off how classic games were made. If you have trouble, the PLEASE ask for help on the forums and someone will help you out. I myself have had to do this.

Larian is planning to continue development and enhancements on the game, so keep checking by. But please, if you need any help, ask us and someone can help you continue the adventure.

smile

Last edited by LightningLockey; 05/10/14 05:58 AM.

Every time there I run into trouble on the road, there is always a dwarf at the bottom of it. Don't they know how to drive above ground?
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A bunch of whining is what the OP is doing. This game does not hold your hand like others, which makes it difficult, which in turn makes you work for it, and when you succeed after working hard for it, you get a lot more satisfaction out of it (dopamine rush!). In this game, each battle requires effort, and so does almost every quest, and item forging/mixing, and whatever else, etc. The story is rather good if you make it far enough and learn of... SPOILER.

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1.Story is good.

From what you seem to interpret from the "story" you have barely even scratched the surface of this game. I will not spoil it for you. For a game to start off with a well crafted quest for a game of clue. i would say that is very unique.

2.

If you showed any form of curiosity you would of figured out fairly quickly that books are needed to learn spells and how to obtain them. About an hour into playing for me i had a really good grasp as to what the benefits and limitations are on spells. This led to the creation of what i dubb the "Party Box". This box is the best method of getting rid of rough boss fights. I would say 90% of the combat mechanics are very similar to more traditional style rpgs. It would just take a little bit of creative experimentation to find out what works best for your characters.

3.

You have chosen poorly and must now suffer the same fate as jim.

4.

The man with the most friends is the man with many cheeses!

5.

Trial and error? Since this game is more like a traditional rpg you can assume basic weaknesses to elements considering the properties of the monster you are engaged in combat with.

6.

System is perfectly fine. It is super easy to use and allows for one person to hold all the gold and have boosted barter for transactions. Sounds like you just didn't know how to active trade with a NPC by clicking on the trade button on the dialogue box. Finding vendors isn't hard either. Just have to ask one question, If i were a vendor where would i be?

7.

The quests do guide you where to go. The quest giver tells you a general direction or place to go. The rest is for you to explore.

8.

Certain variables will determine what target will be the best for a NPC to attack. Elemental barricades or status effects (knockdown, stun, slow, etc..) help with protecting your weaker characters and assist in controlling the flow of combat. These "spikes" won't be as much of an issue. If it is to rough then i recommend a "Party Box".

9.

bleh henchmen. The companions you get in cyseal are what you should have to fill in your weaknesses.

10. This game does allow multiple viable play styles.

My current (hard)game that i am playing through with a friend has our group composed of 2 rogues, a mage, and a knight/mage hybrid. The rogues are our biggest damage / crowd control at this point and allows the knight and mage to focus on the bigger threats. Since both rogues have bully they can usually kill one target a turn if it is knocked down. Within 2 turns in the monsters have have from 8 to 6. If i handle my part the quantity will be half within 3 turns. Undead are of minor issue since knockdown and bully allow for the rogues to assassinate so much easier. Wish i had bully on my knight. sad

the only thing i would like changed at the moment is how tenebrium weapons are crafted/modified and how the tenebrium weapon skill works with items that are modified with tenebrium.

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There is only one thing to say

D:OS is a traditional RPG - no hints wink

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Originally Posted by Castlemaster
I almost made it through all of Cyseal, and for my own frustration I need to put the game down. As per usual, I want to make it clear that these are my opinions and I do not presume to apply this to everyone.

1. Story is good but generic

Divinity has fantastic writing, but the overall story is just too generic for me. Undead invading a city is ok and all, but there was just nothing that pulled me in. Someone is trying to resurrect and old mage. Again, just generic stuff.

Cool, you described 1/3 of the story. Now keep playing.

Quote
2. Combat needs a serious tutorial

There are so many things in combat that I had to look up, or simply made no sense to me. I did not know you needed fire to clear poison and electricity clouds. I did not know that when you set things on fire and they had poison it would explode and hurt everything.

Try experimenting.

Quote
Although you could get a skill for backstabbing is not explained how you backstab.

What.

Quote
so many times i would misclick, trying to click on an enemy model, only to have them move slightly or me fumble one pixel, accidentally tell my character to move, then they use half their turn walking.

This is a legitimate complaint, yes.

Quote
In more than one situation it would require having a character that has fire or ice or poison in order to be effective.

Try having several different weapons of different elements.

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In fact I do restart the game after putting in a solid 10 or 15 hours because I was unaware that you had to save up your skill points to advance your skills past a certain point (I know that there's a tooltip for but it was usually glossed over and I didn't know about it until it was too late).

You don't have to, I didn't do it my first run, and you can respect later.


Quote
one character with loremaster was not in view of the enemy or I forgot to look at during their turn I was screwed and I can't go back because I can only look at them during that characters turn.

So.. who's fault is that, that you aren't using your loremaster correctly?

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Many times I would try blind a boss monster only to find out they could be blinded whereas other boss monsters could be blinded.

So? You don't need to be perfect every turn. Experiment, observe, adapt.

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but I had the look of special guides just to figure out where to buy things I spent nearly an hour and a half in town

What.

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And then having to spread the gold across multiple characters

Why do you have to do that?

Quote
7. Quests and map layout do not guide you where you need to go

More than once I would go to areas that I was not meant to go to. I would be level 3 fighting characters that were level 7 and 8. I understand some people like this because it teaches you that you can go everywhere you want, but by the same token there was no indicator to say that this was a dangerous area, and the only way I could of known is by going and dying at than reloading the game.

Or.. you can notice that the enemies are level 7 and then leave the area. That is an indicator, you know. Ctrl to see their level. Use Flee to run away. Teleport pyramid away. Lots of options.

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In addition the quest dialog were very poor at guiding you where to go next

What

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with many quests requiring you to complete other quest before continuation.

So?

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Because the monster AI is not consistent they would go after my weaker members and kill them in two hits, because they are not designed to take a lot of damage.

So.. protect your weaker members, or give them better defense.

Quote
9. Henchmen are interchangeable

Unlike the blackout games of the past for each henchmen had an individual story and added much to the game all the henchmen in this one are completely interchangeable more than you care about other skills as they don't add it into the story or talk with you very much

So?

Quote
10. The game is not designed to allow multiple viable playstyles

Over half of your time in Cyseal is spent fighting the undead, and as a result those that use witchcraft and scoundrel skills are completely ineffective. Anything with bleeding or poison just simply doesn't work and a lot of the scoundrel skills just didn't work well. Early on if you do Geo Mansour your first summons is a spider who deals a lot of poisoning but all the undead are immune to poison. Even worse is when you fight the burning skeletons because now poison, bleeding, AND fire are ineffective. As a result nights and fighters were greatly overpowered, and when you found enemies that were susceptible to those elements the characters who uses elements did not shine.


You do know that Cyseal isn't the only part of the game, right? Anyways, again, adapt. You can change skills. You can get Midnight Oil, which slows everyone no matter their element. You can, again, get weapons of any element you want. You can also design a party that has magic of all four elements, so that you aren't stuck with only fire and earth.

Heck, in Cyseal/early game you can spend one point to add another element, and be completely effective. Fire and Earth not working? Get one point in Aero and/or Hydro and you get to use Blitz Bolt and/or Chilling Shard for no penalty.

I don't even have an offensive spell on my water mage. I just use Staff of Magus with a water staff and do more damage than anyone I have. Also, try Charming, which is a Scoundrel skill that is not ineffective (not to mention Trip and uhhh the stunning skill).

Last edited by Mangoose; 06/10/14 09:32 PM.
Joined: Mar 2003
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first post didn't take so here I try again...

1. Story is good but generic

No comment haven't gotten very far just two half days playing...

2. Combat needs a serious tutorial

I thought it mentioned some of your concerns during tutorial pop-ups... (Edit: Redid start and yes removing poison clouds is a specific popup during tutorial... as are several other such mechanics) I didn't notice any learning misgivings. Though the trying to click enemy and animation moves and then I click ground... that is annoying, but I'm more careful now smile

3. Character Options work against you

Maybe because I am used to playing RPGs but saving up skill points seemed pretty obvious... the second point takes 2 instead of one so upping any after level 1...

4. The voice-overs are too much

Yes, and since there is no true pause it is even more so annoying. I'll pause to go do something and can hear them throughout the house blabbing away constantly... same thing over and over silly people...

5. Finding out enemies weakness was mostly trial and error

Can't comment here either as I haven't gotten that far in, but when I see a fire elemental I don't shoot fireballs at it :P. Others been dying easily so haven't really bothered looking for weakness. Spider boss thing though... Hide behind wall haha can't hit me laugh. A lot of earlier fights was also highly reliant on tactics more than characters skill...

7. Quests and map layout do not guide you where you need to go

Used to being hand held by most current RPGs this took me by surprise at first. Then I realized that there are markers on the map to things like hidden hideout on NW beach... It just doesn't have a point rotating constantly to lead you to it. What got me more until I realized it was the silly quest log show stuff in correct order not recent at top... Lol I was looking for the mage arhu and wondering why he wasn't in the harbour, oh wait I did that at very beggining... DUH!

8. Encounter difficulty can have huge spikes

Agreed, I got to a spider boss and it one shot my whole team with its second water attack... I killed it without a scratch on me after reload as I realized the perfect tactic for killing it. (same group) Wonder if it was designed that way or I just got to it way too early... Bosses so far have been the worst for this but they can be got around with tactics. intended?

9. Henchmen are interchangeable

10. The game is not designed to allow multiple viable playstyles

Wasting one skill point into a complementing mage skill allows you to use three spells of that element... It isn't that much of a sacrifice either... I can't really comment further than what I experience though and only about 14 hours of play time in and playing fighter/fire mage I haven't had an issue yet with combat other than bosses, and going to areas I'm not ready for yet...

Last edited by Phalzyr; 07/10/14 01:10 PM.

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