Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - Enhanced Edition Moloch's Stat Trades - 1:1 Talent to Ability?

i just unlocked the Hall of Darkness and wanted to switch some stats around. namely, i had saved up an unspent Talent Point on both of my main characters as i had read on the old wiki (from the unenhanced version) that i would be able to trade those for 10 Ability Points.

but apparently in the EH, that trade is now 1:1, meaning i only get one single AP for each TP.

i assume this is an intentional change (rather than a bug) as Moloch himself mentions "perhaps we can make a trade- one for one" but sacrificing one TP (of which you only get 7 or 8 throughout the entire game) for only a single AP (of which you get ~50, even without Lone Wolf) seems useless to me.

i do feel that a 10:1 ratio might be too powerful, but surely nerfing this trade by 90% was too much?
personally, i'd say something around 5:1 would be fine, but there's no way i'd ever want to trade a TP for only one single AP.

At the least it should be a 3:1 Trade. A 1:1 Trade is so worthless the option to trade might as well have been removed from the game entirely for all the use it is.

I think we should have been able to trade a talent point for one attribute point.
Things like Know it All would then be traded off to virtually remove the penalty, but why not. Still costs a little bit of gold and since we only get like 7 talents, you may want to have actual useful talent anyway rather than useless talents just for the sake of trading ( though I know a few builds that may not benefit a lot from talents ).

By the way, I never tried, but is Lone Wolf tradeable ? Or Pet Pal ? I think those two must be taken at creation time so I'd wager they can't be traded afterwards, but if it was possible that would definitely be a little broken.

[quote=Stabbey]At the least it should be a 3:1 Trade. A 1:1 Trade is so worthless the option to trade might as well have been removed from the game entirely for all the use it is.[/quote]
agreed, 3:1 should be the absolute minimum. 10:1 really seems too much, especially when you can trade 5 Ability Points for 1 Attribute (which i believe remains the same in EH). but 1:1 is pointless (pun intended).


[quote=Dr Koin]I think we should have been able to trade a talent point for one attribute point.
Things like Know it All would then be traded off to virtually remove the penalty, but why not.[/quote]
there is also a Talent that gives 2 AP. maybe that was the reason why the trade was made so weak now? but then, i also feel that particular Talent is useless.
[quote]By the way, I never tried, but is Lone Wolf tradeable ? Or Pet Pal ? I think those two must be taken at creation time so I'd wager they can't be traded afterwards, but if it was possible that would definitely be a little broken.[/quote]
only unspent points can be traded. so if you want to trade talents you have already spent, you'd have to do a full respecc first.

and on that note, it would be nice if we could respecc only our Talents or only our Attributes, without losing all our skills...

If Larian changes the trade to 1 Talent point = 3 Ability points and keeps the 3 Ability points = 1 Attribute point, then you can.



Know-It-All should indeed get a boost of some kind given the restriction and penalty compared to Bigger and Better.

All Skilled Up would need a boost to give 3 Ability points instead of two.

Of course, that's mostly what I meant I don't know whether LW or PP can be respecced as I never try a respec at all.



Yup, obviously !

It totally depends on what the developers' intentions were with this option.

You're trying to balance it around the idea that players should always have the option of making a fair deal to have more ability points and less talent points. That's all well and fine - *if* that's the devs' intention.

However, they may be offering this as a tough choice, or an option aimed at a few rather than a customization feature for nearly everyone.

For example, some people may really need a extra ability points to make a concept work (and are willing to trade talents point for it).

Or, some people may have all the talents they want (I know it's difficult to believe that some people build their characters around a concept of something other than "being as overpowered as the game lets me get away with", but it's true), and so they're left with talent points to spare which they would like to exchange for something more useful.

Heck, the developers may have decided they wanted the entire mechanic out of the game, perhaps no longer fitting in with their vision, yet left a highly inefficient (but intentional) trade in so players at least had it as an option for minor adjustments that wouldn't upset game balance.

Point is, we just don't know. It's easy to suggest it's badly ballanced, but if it's exactly as they intended then it's actually balanced perfectly. Something doesn't need to be removed from the game just because "someone" can't see themselves ever using it (if that were the case "Lone Wolf" would be gone). Personally, I support the change from the previous ratio as I felt it made too many talents obsolete (as did everyone, really).

Talents are still obsolete for most builds, because the talents themselves suck. Some of them are great, some are decent, and the rest aren't worth the skill points. Instead of making the trade completely one-sided, they should have worked on rebalancing the talents so that you have many choices of talents you WANT. That doesn't mean nerfing them until they are all crap, that means buffing the crap ones until you cant pick just one.

Ever since the beta I've been saying that the game really needed more Talents, and more good Talents. There are so many possibilities for Talents to be useful for making specific builds, but Larian doesn't seem to have seen all the potential which was there.

The EE helped fix a couple of the bad ones, but it did a lot less in that area than I was hoping. I mean, Weatherproof is still in the EE with the same absurd Geo 5 requirement that it had in vanilla.

Maybe it was what the developers intended. But hey, they themselves have said that feedback from the community was a great help for improving D:OS, so they don't always have the right answers themselves. Even if they don't act on it, there's no harm in giving feedback and alternate ideas.


Sure, in vanilla the trade was overpowered and changing it wasn't a terrible idea. But if it was to be brought down to a 1:3 ratio (instead of 1:1), it would provide a benefit equal to that of the Talents which were obsolete in vanilla, meaning there is no longer a point in saving that point to trade instead of taking them, while providing much more flexibility than a 1:1 ratio.

i would also really like to see a larger number of useful talents. you'd think that with 45 talents in total, there would be plenty of good choices for any character build. but in practise, the majority of them seem pretty worthless. and many of those that would have at least SOME value across pretty much all builds (like +movement, +evade, +vitality, +resistances, evading attacks of opportunity, etc) are locked behind specific 'class' skills.

using these talent requirements to better define builds (scoundrels are quick, men-at-arms are tough, etc) sounds like a good idea in itself, but then you better make sure that all builds have a good number of choices that give noteworthy benefits.

i made another thread with some ideas for new talents: http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=574864&#Post574864

Is anyone else having an issue trading ability points for attribute points? Moloch actually takes 3 ability points for 1 attribute point, despite the 1:1 ratio described in the dialogue. And if I only have I ability point available, his dialogue suggests that I don't have any ability points, and he refuses the trade.