Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General PAX East - PvP match - feedback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE4mjBETKjU

Its wierd feeling. Looks like a over-complicated fantasy UFO:x-com from recently founded korean developer.

Add a vertical aspect brings camera issues. First release of Original sin had even fixed camera, so player could focus on gameplay. Now, the player focus camera movement. That is unfortunate. Battle is slow/boring due to a player must check all possible camera angles. Cant imagine play this in 4 coop. Game of waiting. I hope you find out how to fix it (remove camera fiddling) and come back gameplay on the throne.

Original has +++ cartoonish art style - specific recognizable style. Trademark style. Now it looks like any average asian MOBA on the market. Gutted, without balls. Dont understand why you remove the specific style. Its like Simpsons start to use 16M colors and white people.

Simplified AP - unique combat which previusly allowed to pass fraction of AP to another turn is gutted. Now 3 AP per turn removes smoothnes of previous system. I could understand to difficulty some people to count to 20 so lets streamline to 3. On the other side, cant understand why still keep hundreds of HP point. It could be more stream-line to hit for 5HP than 50HP isnt it? Why do I need 2486 HP ? Would I be a looser to have 2468 ? How the people who need 3 AP to be able to play could handle such high numbers ?

Skill classes are more and more same. Ranger or fighter doesnt matter - both are filled with ranged AOE. Stupid. Oh wait, movement costs AP so ranged AOE makes sense ... That is stupid at the best.

Even i watched video 2 times I didnt get meaning of those new 2 bars above the HP bar.

Your previous games, Dragon commander suffered by same mad presentation. Put everything to anything, boil it up, mash it down, put a ton of spice. Result -> awful chaos.

Sven, said that DOS original aim was a small game a side project but dragon commander the big one. Maby you could re-think what was the rootcause of DOS success over the Dr.Commander.

I think there is a lot of work waiting. I hope you manage it it somehow :-/

On the contrary, it is pretty much the same combat with more options. Which is good. I love that height is now a factor. I am salivating already. I will enjoy many, many hours playing with my friends in PvP battles. As Swen said in the interview, it is a very tactical game.

Regarding your other comments, just garbage. The only things being 'stupid' are the nonsense coming out from your awful feedback. Hopefully Larian will ignore weirdos (comments) like you(rs)...

Looks pretty awesome to me. Regarding your points:

Seriously, vertical terrain adds so much depth to combat in literally every genre possible that any camera issues are more than made up with an increase in tactical options. The camera can get a bit "bobby," jutting up and down, but you hardly have to check every angle. Remember, these people have never played the map and are getting used to tons of new features. A possible option would be a way to temporarily lock camera height so you can move around the map without getting motion sickness.

Graphics look pretty solid to me. Textures look leagues better. Sure, there's nothing particularly special about this arena map, but it's a pre-alpha arena map. To be honest, I don't think there was anything insanely unique about the original D:OS graphics in general either -- mostly character design, sounds, and the sort of goofy vibe set it somewhat apart from the standard RPG look. It was solid, but not some signature look that has been abandoned. The UI looks kind of generic but, again, it's pre-alpha, and that 30-slot bottom bar is sooo much more functional than the 10 limit.

Simplified AP can go either way for me. I can understand why they went that direction, but more variation in AP costs does create different ways to balance. Overall, I think it will be an improvement.

Movement has always cost AP... I didn't see any Man-At-Arms AOE spells (besides like, phoenix dive, if that was even a warrior spell). That warrior also had geomancer spells.

I think the new bar above the health is some kind of new armor system. Some skills penetrate armor, heal armor, etc. I don't quite understand it, but will be explained in due time.

Returning to vertical gameplay goes, I'm really hoping for more skills that directly take advantage of height advantage and complicated terrain. Stuff like grappling hooks or a way to scale something without a ladder, perhaps just little vertical paths (e.g., vines) that are ways for more dexterous classes to scale. Ways to knock off players heights for heavy damage, a damage bonus for teleporting an enemy off a height, stuff like that. Also, cone attacks really need to be able to be aimed vertically (though maybe they can be in a way already, but it seemed like that ooze, Margaret, lol, couldn't hit that enemy on the height with that ooze spray spell).

Also, variety in projectile arcs would be wizard, including a really vertical shot where you're practically shooting straight up, so you could hit someone behind a wall, or even a sideways arc path.

I'm also digging the new surfaces and how you can curse or bless them.

https://youtu.be/BE4mjBETKjU?t=5m21s

This. Tree on a screen means - lost focus. Game means - its not about gameplay, its about camera movement. Any change from gameplay to camera stuff could not overweight bonus of verticality. If its not possible to add verticality without loosing gameplay focus then do not add such a thing.

It was recognizable. Now it is not. The specific cartoon flavour is out. Generic look in. I talk about art. The UI is obviously provisional. Anyway full bottom bar of quick slots is a good idea, maby make it dynamic lenght so it starts short and automaticly stretch +1 one slot when full.

Let's not get afraid of a third dimension because of some poorly placed trees. Or just make them see through. Not like a tree couldn't get in the way in a perfectly flat map either. The up-down motion of the camera is far greater issue that's actual unique to a vertical-focused area.

Moreover, you're going to have to position the camera at least a little in a large enough arena. The camera control in D:OS was plenty seamless to me. Middle-click and pivot, easy enough. Sometimes there are even objects in the way and I had to move around them. So long as that isn't constantly happening, that's fine. If it is, that's bad level design, not an unsalvalgeable concept that verticality might possibility be integrated into a top-down, turn-based game.

Looks fantastic.
Back to the roots of the original divine divinity game, no more cartoonish style. Finally!

I got no problem with height, ill take some manual camera adjustments for better gameplay thank you very much.

Also remember that this is WIP, in Original Sin the game would make objects in front of you see through, chances are theyll do this aswell in the sequal.

I admit im not too happy with the artstyle, i like that the armors have a cultural part right now tho.

In original sin 1 the armors were all very generic, now the human armor looks like renaissance dress plate which is awsome, but in general i think the artstyle could be a little more like the dreamlike aesthetic from OS1

Why the warrior has AoE and ranged spells is kind of obvious: he also uses geomancy and pyromancy, one only must pay attention

I've got to say that the new combat system is definitely deeper and more challenging. I got smoked by Swen rather quickly in our match, in part because I was operating with a DOS EE mindset and that's a hindrance. You'll definitely need to re-train your thinking. Even more than the previous game, I feel like no two encounters will be the same.

The graphics looked fantastic to me and I didn't have any issues with the camera. I'm very much looking forward to it!

This should not be a problem in the end.
This is a mistake on our part (the ones who decorated the maps for PAX). Trees are supposed to fade exactly to avoid that problem. A missclick probably... Because I totally agree with you, a tree should never get in your way like that. This is horrible.

Gameplay feels like a more complex XCOM, hopefully XCOM2? SOLD

3d Cartoon style gone? SOLD

I'm a relatively happy bunny now.

^^ fading trees and walls, yes. It helps.
Perhaps outline and highlight a character who is behind a wall - (outline silhouette) it prevents - I missed one camera angle to see him.

There's one thing I'd like to have more info on: the cover system: how does it work? any chance for it to be similar to XCOM2?

I'd like to ask, if any chance to avoid cover system at all?

Heroes hiding below a table, introduce hide and shoot most common tactic how to slay a dragon ? no thank you.

That sounds a cheap solution to a potential gameplay problem: rather than eliminating cover system it would be more sensible to have it work differently.

We didn't see any cover mechanics in the combat demonstration. Are they still planned for the game (beyond simply moving out of sight)? If you have snap to cover, will this reduce the damage and/or debuffs from AOE spells targeting cover or the ground nearby?

I hope they don't remove the cover system, it was a brilliant idea which made a lot of sense.
Then again, this is pre-alpha.

From gameplay point of view
- there are new attributes (Wisdom, Dex is split)
- there are new class trees
- there is new skill system and new skill balance
- there is new source magic for everyone
- there is overhaul combat system (AP change, removed sight, hearing, ...)
- there is verticality added
- there is 4 player coop
- there is unique character creation and dialog web system
- there is new UI

Wraps it - all things wich made DOS greate are subject to change. Any of these changes could make a source of disaster. Adding another new system like cover-system sounds like more and more like Russian roulette.

I am quite reserved about mindlessly adding more.

Check the game series Black Guards. Based on german A&D (Schwarze auge), used some inovative aproach. I loved combination of 3D turn battles and hand-made semi-static art screens for story dialogs. Simply beatiful. Would love the same trick for DOS. It was not AAA game but for RPG positive player very fun. They sold decent amount. So they made a next part BlackGuards 2 - they added/gutted a lot of. They focused for streamlinig a lot. Guted "unnecessary numbers", streamlined combat system, added mainstream media story like lead a mob against dictator. Result - total disaster. They sold just few copies.

Why ? They simply didnt recognize what made the first game popular.

Similar story has Supreme Commander 1 and 2. second part added/gutted a LOT. Unfortunately gutted fun part and added dull part. Result - there is not Gas Powered games studio anymore.

I think that DOS2 has a LOT of new stuff already. Personaly, I would prefere some of the new stuff toned down. I would prefer decent improvement of underdeveloped things - inventory, craft, dialogs camera, quality of graphics, animations system, cloth physics, physics of interaction, ability to permanent change enviroment - cut trees, destroy buildings, turn foliage to ashes, poisond ground so foliage will slowly decay(in days) and crops die; massive AI improvement, ....

Now I see tendency become mainstream fantasy X:com with thousands of skills. I would say rather focus in dept than wide.

You're a bit biased towards criticism.

"I would say rather focus in dept than wide."

Depth? Why let me see depth!

"I would prefer decent improvement of underdeveloped things - inventory, craft, dialogs camera, quality of graphics, animations system, cloth physics, physics of interaction, ability to permanent change enviroment - cut trees, destroy buildings, turn foliage to ashes, poisoned ground so foliage will slowly decay(in days) and crops die; massive AI improvement"

So outside the "Massive AI improvement" no depth.

The thing about Xcom and how it split its actions was that ultimately it was a very tactful game at the end of the day. Every single point you could save was vital in come capacity. So a reduction of that system to a "Move and an action" system, I can see where the negativity comes in.

But in Divinity Original Sin where the AP was all over the place and some classes would run out of actions before they run out of AP.

They are focusing MORE on depth. Simply by making AP consistent and important. As well as you can tell by magic armor they are taking the issues in the first game and trying to smooth them over (such as how having the first turn in DOS was absolutely vital because CCs pretty much won you entire fights).