|
|
|
journeyman
|
OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2014
|
Currently 2h + warfare does by an order of magnitude more damage than anything else while also having CC, mobility and what not and makes combat absolutely trivial with obscenely high damage.
Some suggestions to make it more reasonable:
-Reduce 2h damage by like 20%
-Dualwield and 2h increase AP cost of skills that use weapon damage by 1
-Warfare skills that are aoe and apply status effects should have a negative damage modifier instead of the extremely high positive they do now. E.g. crippling strike/battering ram should do like 80% weapon damage. The fact that they have AOE, extra damage, low AP cost, apply status effects and in case of battering ram are great for mobility is ridiculous.
-Rage is ridiculous, suggest dropping that 100% crit chance to like 30% max(or maybe double your existing crit chance instead so that crit chance does not become irrelevant).
Last edited by MadDemiurg; 11/10/16 05:43 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Dec 2015
|
The 100% crit is really quite fun, but its broken. I think you could keep then fun by increasing the cd and making it a self buff only. It lasts for 2 turns and has a 4 turn cd, when means you have 2 on and 2 off with 100% crit. I think if the cd was extended to maybe 6 turns, it would be a strategic decision on when to get a massive damage buff for 2 turns. Conversly, keep the cd the same and have the effect only last 1 turn? There has to be 100 different ways to balance it
|
|
|
|
|
|
stranger
|
|
stranger
Joined: Oct 2016
|
I think Larian made a good job of making a close combat class feel rewarding. Typically close quarter front-liners are just dumb meats that you keep healed. In Divinity 2 they become high damage executioners that can clean up low health mobs.
There's one thing that irks me about nerfing 2H: it's all STR characters have. They don't really get any sweet toys or anything else, I would appreciate it if they actually did damage to some degree of competency and not just be a sub-par CC tank because what else can they do if they don't do damage?
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2016
|
There's one thing that irks me about nerfing 2H: it's all STR characters have. They don't really get any sweet toys or anything else, I would appreciate it if they actually did damage to some degree of competency and not just be a sub-par CC tank because what else can they do if they don't do damage?
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If damage is reduced appropriately they can just be balanced instead of overpoweringly awesome.
Last edited by error3; 15/10/16 05:14 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
I don't think 2h damage needs to be nerfed. It should hit like a truck. In DOS1 warriors were slow and useless once you blew your battering ram. My mage did like 90% of the damage in my playthrough. Especially since it's already been noted that magic has a ton of variety while man at arms has like none. The skillset doesn't need to suck on top of everything else.
But I agree about the skills. I don't think melee aoes should hit as hard or harder than a single precise strike. Also, rage synergizes a bit too well with executioner, since it takes 2 ap to attack and you get two ap from a kill. Can easily faceroll the entire enemy squad by yourself with it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
2H damage is only broken because of the Axe Zaleskar sells. It's too powerful. Name me one situation where you don't get it. The stats are insane.
The skills do need a nerf across the board, that I agree with. 20% would probably be enough of a nerf to leave them viable, but not game-breaking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
2H damage is only broken because of the Axe Zaleskar sells. It's too powerful. Name me one situation where you don't get it. The stats are insane.
The skills do need a nerf across the board, that I agree with. 20% would probably be enough of a nerf to leave them viable, but not game-breaking. Actually you don't need Sundering Cleaver to dish out unbelievable amounts of damage; I managed to score a critical hit worth 140 points with just a 2h mace with damage in the range of 56-62, or something like that, just by using rage and then cripple at level 4. It's the system in itself that is OP, not just Zaleskar's axe (although that thing does certainly help in rekking anything that stands in your way)
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2016
|
It's the system in itself that is OP, not just Zaleskar's axe (although that thing does certainly help in rekking anything it stands in your way)
Completely agree here. I did a solo run with most character types, as my comparison, and my playthrough using 2H weapons was easier and stronger right from the get-go. It's the Weapon and Str scaling of the warfare abilities that are too strong. Crippling Blow and Battering Ram hit harder than regular attacks and are AoE. Battering Ram does it for only 1 AP (AoE, more damage than a 2 cost attack, mobility, and knockdown!) And Rage and Warlord are strong, but every character can/should get those abilities.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
Battering Ram does it for only 1 AP (AoE, more damage than a 2 cost attack, mobility, and knockdown!)
Aaaaaand there's that, too. Makes me think that Battering Ram is not a skill per se, but actually a huge wheel of edamer cheese in disguise 
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
I think the fastest way to fix the abilities is to just fix the current stat system and base damage of skills. There will always be a "Strongest" build and path in alpha, where the systems are still under development.
That being said, having the enemy go first in every fight unless you focus on initiative and wit gets a little boring. It tends to force me into making a bullet sponge always lead the charge because nobody influential will ever get to go first. The Void boss with skeletons REALLY brought this to my attention. The undead are almost always characterized as being sturdy and slow, and yet they go before my scoundrel with 16 initiative?
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
I think a 20% nerf to skill damage is perfectly reasonable. Skills shouldn't hit extremely hard, be aoe, and CC the mobs for 1ap(cough, battering ram).
I just think it's important to remember that melee should be stronger than magic or it becomes pointless. It's already easy enough to just teleport mobs into elemental fields and watch them die, with no risk to your party. If you can't solo as a melee character, what good is it?
I definitely don't want to go back to OS1's status quo where you had to spend a whole round buffing your fighters for them to be able to kick as much ass as your mages. It was almost always a better option to just spam magic combos.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
I think a 20% nerf to skill damage is perfectly reasonable. Skills shouldn't hit extremely hard, be aoe, and CC the mobs for 1ap(cough, battering ram). Good to see that error3 and me aren't the only ones smelling cheese there.
I just think it's important to remember that melee should be stronger than magic or it becomes pointless. It's already easy enough to just teleport mobs into elemental fields and watch them die, with no risk to your party. If you can't solo as a melee character, what good is it?
While I tend to agree here, the current issue is that warfare abilities are 88mm flaks in the convenient form of a button. As it is, melee is indeed stronger than casting both in terms of AP costs and sheer damage, and it is totally broken. As per the teleporting enemies into elemental fields, Phoenix Dive can be horrendously broken if an oil barrel happens to be nearby your targets. An exploit I use with Phoenix Dive: 1 - Pick up an oil barrel whenever you see one and keep it in your inventory 2 - The moment a fight begins, have your character with the highest initiative place 1-2 barrels on the ground and telekinesis them nearby the foe 3 - Warrior's turn: phoenix dive nearby the barrels 4 - If it doesn't make any enemy nearby the barrel suffer from critical existence failure (which happens 95% of the time), it still removes almost all of their health in just one turn. 5 - Enjoy your 2 turns of fire invulnerability, plus a teleport effect to boot. Almost all of my fights have been won just by using this strategy, bar Alexander and the jester in Braccus' vault.
Last edited by GrumpyMcGrump; 15/10/16 08:50 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
There are always broken skill combos, I *mostly* think that's fine. In OS1 I had a fire/poisonfield combo that would explode a million times, followed by rain and finishing with the electricity blitz skill for absurd damage and stuns; all with my mage character.
But right now the thing that seems WRONG, to me at least, is that I can battering ram everyone for half their health, use whirlwind or w/e it's called and slaughter all the people I just battered for like 3 or 4ap, and get ap back from those kills with warlord. THEN I use my normal attacks. In one turn. With one dude!
The whole point of aoe attacks is that they're supposed to be weaker than single target attacks. I shouldn't want to use BR/WW at the first possible opportunity. It should be tactical.
Nerf skill damage and those aoe skills become a way to clean up low hp enemies or CC stronger ones who are clustered, while normal attacks and single target skills can quickly bring down difficult single targets. That'll compliment your magic users throwing around aoes and fields everywhere for moderate aoe damage to everyone.
Although with that said I think fighters need more single target skills to begin with...
Last edited by Shadovvolfe; 15/10/16 08:56 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
|
There are always broken skill combos, I *mostly* think that's fine. In OS1 I had a fire/poisonfield combo that would explode a million times, followed by rain and finishing with the electricity blitz skill for absurd damage and stuns; all with my mage character.
But right now the thing that seems WRONG, to me at least, is that I can battering ram everyone for half their health, use whirlwind or w/e it's called and slaughter all the people I just battered for like 3 or 4ap, and get ap back from those kills with warlord. THEN I use my normal attacks. In one turn. With one dude!
The whole point of aoe attacks is that they're supposed to be weaker than single target attacks. I shouldn't want to use BR/WW at the first possible opportunity. It should be tactical.
Nerf skill damage and those aoe skills become a way to clean up low hp enemies or CC stronger ones who are clustered, while normal attacks and single target skills can quickly bring down difficult single targets. That'll compliment your magic users throwing around aoes and fields everywhere for moderate aoe damage to everyone.
Although with that said I think fighters need more single target skills to begin with... I agree on everything. What with the fact that warfare is a single set of close combat skills stacked against 5 spell skills, some more variety would be swell. As long as it's not overpowered 
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2015
|
I think the big problem is Crippling Blow. It has the highest single-target damage output of any non-source ability in the game, and yet it's an AoE and applies a debuff. I really don't think it was meant to dish out that much damage. You talk about Rage being overpowered and stuff, but after you use Rage, what's the first (and often only) ability you use right afterward? It's Crippling Blow. When I was doing one my One Man Army challenge with a knight, I was able to end a fight against 5 enemies in one attack (I did have to use teleport to get the 5th guy close enough, but the other 4 were all together).
That's not to say that Rage isn't overpowered, but I think Larian should only nerf Crippling Blow's damage before looking at reducing the power of anything else warrior-related. I'm pretty sure it's not meant to have such high damage output, anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2014
|
2h warriors were OP is D:OS 1 too having crazy damage output. Here it's just more silly.
The game is not about feeling "awesome" as you one click explode enemies into bloody bits. It's supposed to provide tactical challenge.
There's zero challenge in the game with the current state of some warfare abilities and 2h damage scaling. 2h/dw are also so much better than 1h or 1h + shield it's not even funny.
Warrior abilities need very severe nerfs to make the game actually interesting if you use them.
Several mage skills are OP too, but it's a separate topic.
Last edited by MadDemiurg; 16/10/16 01:18 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Sep 2016
|
Question: Is the issue the power level or how early one can attain that perfect synergy?
I ask cause late game warriors in game one were very broken but no one complains. Wizards too in their own way.
The problem here seems that all the best synergy skills/talents for max output and killing efficiency are open to us too early with little to no requirements
Last edited by aj0413; 16/10/16 01:48 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2015
|
I'm fine with having access to the more powerful abilities early on. The player really shouldn't be struggling at the beginning of the game while they're still trying to work out how to play the game. If someone figures out how to one-shot enemies in their first few fights, I don't see a problem with that. It's when they keep one-shotting enemies (multiple enemies at once, even) all the way through to the final fight that it's a problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
member
|
|
member
Joined: Oct 2016
|
2h warriors were OP is D:OS 1 too having crazy damage output. Here it's just more silly.
The game is not about feeling "awesome" as you one click explode enemies into bloody bits. It's supposed to provide tactical challenge.
There's zero challenge in the game with the current state of some warfare abilities and 2h damage scaling. 2h/dw are also so much better than 1h or 1h + shield it's not even funny.
Warrior abilities need very severe nerfs to make the game actually interesting if you use them.
Several mage skills are OP too, but it's a separate topic. I do feel like 2h is a little too strong in general, but both games pretty obviously make no attempt to present a well balanced experience. If you want such an experience then you can simply avoid skills you think are too powerful and crank the difficulty up a bit. I say this with the best of intent, not to be insulting. The system is just too complex with how much control the players and monsters have over the battlefield to really give any semblance of a fine tuned experience. if that's the experience you want you will almost certainly have to force the games hand.
Chaotic neutral, not chaotic stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
|
journeyman
|
|
OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2014
|
Well, they could at least try.
D:OS 1 Act 1 was pretty fun and balanced imo. It's just the later acts where it became broken. If they manage to replicate OS 1 Act 1 difficulty for the whole length of the game here I'd be quite happy.
|
|
|
|
|
