Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback >>> There is no gradation in battle <<<

I have spend some time watching people on youtube playing. I have a big issue
>>>> There is no gradation in battle <<<

Every classic movie, theater or whatever has gradation. It starts, then it complicates, then things are more and more intense then booom. The great final scene. Everything explodes, hero kiss a bride and that is. That doesnt work here. No gradation.

When a player gets a powerfull spell, he tend to use it in the first round or worse, as a battle starter. That means battles DOS2 starts with great final booom, then ... continue to ehmm the final scene where heroes use pointy stick because all tha boom stuff is depleted. That is odd sense of drama.

My point is how to add gradation ?
How to add classic sceanario where the booom is final ?

I get a possible answear >> All the skills (spells) starts battle with cooldown on. The cooldown is equal to a skill level. e.g. in the first round autoatack is usualy used. Maneuvring is done in the first round, shady persons are disaperaing. Then things gets complicated. Second round the spells are coming. Then more and more so. The boom spells comes to scene in 4th round. The source-uber final spell KABOOM comes on the scene in the 5th round.

What you think ?

The defining essential feature of videogames is that the player has control and makes the decisions about the actions to perform. Complaining that battles do not enforce MAXIMUM DRAMA as if they are following a movie script completely misses the point. Videogames are not movies.

No wonder your other opinion was so biased, gGeo.

Tell that to the Warcraft film. And Spiderman game too.

Gradation is a concept. Story which begins with a big boom then fade out on the end are not very often, becouse they are not very successful.

You know, its like to see a girl on the street, come to her and say: Hey you, come here we are going to have a babies. That will not work. Gradation is required.

That concept when something start then grow then explode. That is I am missing.

That actually is one of the better ideas, one that actually changes how you would make decisions in the game. The question is if DOS 2 would have to be changed in more profound ways than already happened. One big downside is that it would slow the game down - and preventing that appears to be Larians highest priority.

Truth is: it works. Rather few games can actually match my anger towards Monopoly.
There is (forgive me) even 9gag posts about the effectiveness of the idea OP wants to convey.

I see what you mean but you already have the option to do exactly what you want to do and I don't want restrictions that prevent me from trying something else.

I would rather have the option to end with a big boom or not. I would like the option to snipe enemies from a distance sometimes. I would like to set traps with barrels or other features of the environment. I would like to set up ambushes. I would like to win a fight 100 different ways.

That is what gives the game replay value once you know the story inside and out.

Can I go to the movie theater with my mouse and keyboard and control and change the events unfolding in the Warcraft movie?

Can I insert the Spiderman game disc into my console, sit back on the couch, throw the controller out the window and watch the game play itself without any input?

The answer to both is "no".



Gradation in terms of story is good. That's one reason why the several-waves-of-voidlings fight is great. It is a surprising, tense encounter which doesn't have a certainty of when it will end, AND it promises that there will be later encounters of a similar nature, but even more difficult.

However, what works for story does not always work for gameplay.

Each act can and should build up combat encounters until at the end the final encounters of the acts are both thematically appropriate and tactically challenging.

However, I do not agree that the game should enforce a DRAMATIC CLIMAX on the player by arbitrarily limiting their options just to make it more dramatic. To me, that is taking away too much freedom away from the player.

In part, this was the motivation for implementing physical and magical armour. Combat in D:OS EE was less than strategic when you could just open with your biggest spells each fight, and mop up from there, if required. Rather than outright prevent powerful spells from being used immediately, the armour can block some damage and CC effects, so there is intended to be a trade off between using skills early and maybe having the effects blocked, or waiting until you can remove or reduce the armour.

I admit your passion for this game, however it is possible that in your righteous rage have overlooked an detail. For a DOS series, gameplay is the story.


Right. I hope you polish a lot, i mean a LOT, the idea of wearing down armor. Or introduce something readable, (wing wing) so more gradation to encounters come.

Currently it is somewhat ... meh. Over-complicated blury and doesnt work either.

I'm not entirely sure what's the implication here, but if it means more boss fights... ugh, no, I hate them.

I'm a bit confused as to what *concrete* changes OP wants to implement. Could you lay out a list of changes and / or an "ideal combat scenario" to further explain your vision, @gGeo ?

I would like to see an evolve of batlle. Any battle.

Lets have a classic conflict with a man on the bar.
You start to talk
Then start to argue
then start to poke each other
then start to push each other
then first hit
then hits going to get harder and harder
then one use a chair
then second use an glass a weapon
Then blood aapear.
Then one loose.

This evolve is missing.
Curent battles start in DOS is like you come to bar then hit nearest guy with a glass until he bleeds out. In other words, you start to use most powerful skills right at the beginning.

It would be better, if any battle has gradation.
It would be good if you start with lower skill then later with more and more powerfull.

Its general idea of battle progress.
Any battle.

Devs noticed that, and comes with an armor stat which wears off, to promote poke eaach other in the first, then, when armor is off, use spectacular skills. It doesnt work very well, and is diffcult to get into.

I came up with an Simple system like enable powerfull spells in certain round.


Is it more clear what is on the table ?
What is your thoughts?

First, there's no rage here. Disagreement is not rage. It wasn't even particularly spirited disagreement either.

Secondly, story is the story. The combat is just the mechanism through which story gets resolved. Combat is not, by itself, a story.

What is the story of the second encounter between the undead Braccus Rex loyalists and the sourcerers? The first one you can talk for a little bit before fighting happens. The second time fighting just happens, no talking. The story for the second one is at most "and then the heroes fight another battle with the undead".


I oppose on principle tying the hands of the players and saying "no you cannot fight the way you want, you have to follow the script because that is more dramatic."

I agree wholeheartedly with this. The idea that you HAVE to hold back, when you're, and this is real important, in a FIGHT TO THE DEATH, is stupid. People fighting to the death,a s almost every fight int his game is, will not want to slowly escalate over time. THey will want to ensure, as quickly as possible, that the foe that threatens them is at the least incapacitated. Or that their armor is worn away, or whatever.


Even then, they may not open with their super skills if they're thinking "Wow, his armor looks WAY tough, I think we'll fight a bit before I try my mega freeze beam blaster on him." or whatever.

That does not mean scripted fights cannot be done.

I played a Blackguard 2 meanwhile. Decent game but very strict rules. First game was Ok then they improved and streamlined to a perfect boring state.

Make a still the same battle process is wrong. even escalated. You are right.
it should be somehow flexible, space for strategy.

What about this -
There is an heat atribute. It adds AP to a skill if there is not enough heat of battle.
That means
- spell level one starts battle with one heat poiint
- spell level 2 starts battle with 2 heat points
- spell level source starts battle with 5 heat points

Those heat points wears of each round by one point.
Trick is, you could call a skill with more AP or wait until heat of battle comes up.
That way, nothhing is hard locked.
More over, adds a strategy.
is it better to use all AP to call 1 spell or do 2 swings by sword ? Maby wait to the next round when the spell would be cheaper ?
Maby is better do nothing and stockpile max AP then call source spell as first ?

its more readable then current armor wear-off system. And does pretty similar thing. when I am thinking about arena, this heat system looks more fun, and playfull.
What you think?