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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Dec 2016
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Or just rename it, because the whole skill tree is all about blood; meanwhile:
Necromancy: conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events.
Maybe call it Twilight is even more appropriate. The whole skill tree is so underwhelming to use, one of the skill (blood rain) is so negative that using it is more likely to kill your team than enemies; and with the summoning tree, this is even more useless.
To celebrate the upcoming "Death is only the beginning" here is my idea to tweak the skill tree.
Damage deal half to magic amour, half directly to health, until magic amour break, it deal bonus 20% to health.
Damage is calculated by percentage of YOUR OWN HEALTH.
1. Blood sucker : Suck life force from enemies around you to heal yourself. Deal 50% damage by 20% of your total health pool, heal 75% of damage dealt.
Saving throw: Physical armor. 2 turns cooldown.
2. Decaying touch: Keeping it.
3. Mosquito swarm: Swarm hell mosquito to enemy, borrow 50% of their current health pool. Last 2 (or 1) turns, 4 cooldown.
Saving throw: Magic amour.
4. Rain Blood: Rename it to 'Soul punisher'
Set a negative aura around yourself, draining life force away from enemies (constitution -x amount the longer they stay inside the aura after each turn), deal 25% of your current health pool as damage each turn. You take half the damage dealt. 2 turns. 4 turns cooldown.
Saving throw: Magic armour.
5. Shackels of pain. Keeping it.
6. Infect (source skill): Transfer any negative buff you have on yourself toward an enemy. Instantly reduce their magic amour to zero in one turn. Enemies around targeted enemy received tremble effects. You lost 30% of your current health pool.
Tremble effect:s Be frightened, speed, AP, Recovery AP, damage reduced in half.
Saving throw (on tremble effect): Magic amour.
Each necromancer point give you 5% more of health pool damage.
Coming with a talent:
Death sacrifice: double your damage on necromancer skill. You no longer can be healed by it. Or The damage you deal is calculated by total health pool, you take DOUBLE damage by the skills.
Sorry for my bad english. Don't make constitution become an useless stat in new game please.
Last edited by Violet Gekko; 25/12/16 04:03 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
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Basing necromancy damage on your vitality pool is a neat idea. Would make it more unique, instead of just another intelligence tree. Of course, it shouldn't quite as damaging as other trees if its main stat is constitution, since you're dealing extra damage and gaining extra life with one stat. Perhaps it might still require some intelligence, where you make the damage it deals a percentage of your total vitality + X-Y damage that depends on your int.
I'm not sure about changing the skilltree passive to split damage between magic and vitality. Not only do most of the skills either do physical damage or require physical armor checks (for bleeding), except infect, you tend to want to focus down armor as fast as possible. Splitting your damage between armor and health would make it much slower before you could CC them, though if you deal extra damage to vitality, that slightly makes up for it.
But the main problem with necromancy is how its most effective when you're completely vulnerable to CC. So I think it could use some skills that let you deal with this better, or at least take advantage (Percentages tuned to balance):
Blood to Bone & Spirit: Sacrifice 25-33% of your max life to gain 33-50% of your max magic and physical armor.
Shared Agony: Share negative damaging statuses (burning, poison, bleeding, acid, etc.) with nearby enemies within 8m.
Gargoyle: Petrify yourself for 1 turn, but you lose all statuses and regenerate 25-50% of your armor.
Blood Brothers: Choose any ally that heals for 50-100% of any healing you receive (basically reverse Shackles of Pain).
Flirting with Death: Deal 33-50% of the difference between your max and current health as physical damage to nearby enemies. That is, the lower your current health, the more damage you deal.
Panic of Gore (Source): For 2-3 turns, any enemies standing in the same blood puddle as you take X-Y damage and are terrified for 1 turn.
Reflection: For 1 turn all statuses that affect you, positive or negative, also affects the originator of that status (if there is one) for 1 turn.
Talent Idea:
Impatient Bloodlust: You can apply bleeding through armor, and you heal 5% of your health whenever an enemy takes damage from bleeding
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2015
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You can't get rid of Rain of Blood as it serves two purposes.
1) Is is there for Blood healing
2) It is there for Leach.
If you are going to alter Necromancy you should understand how the skills are intended to be used first.
For example Mosquito Swarm being magic armor instead of physical armor would actually be a detriment. Since not only do you remove the Physical Synergy, but Wizards actually do benefit from having both physical and magical attacks.
---
In fact the big problem with your Necromancy "Fix" is you are thinking of it as being purely for magicians AND completely stuck in the first game mindset of no multiclassing at all costs.
The other is you, like many others, completely underestimate Necromancy because your stuck in a purely magician mindset. Mosquito swarm isn't useless, not only does it do good damage against anyone who lost their physical armor, but it is decent for topping off HP.
The other is it is by far overpowered... Dealing any percent of your HP as damage is absolutely devastating. 20% of your health can be 60 damage or more... More then AP skills typically do.
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So here is what Necromancy currently does
Necromancy is a skill set made to synergize mostly with frontline attackers, most notably Leechers but it isn't a requirement. It combos also with Air (and Earth/Water to a lesser extent). It has two main purposes, to sustain your frontline warriors indirectly (more set up based) and to deny the enemy the same through powerful CC-options. All the while being focused more on physical attack (Earth being the only int skillset of mixed types).
So you need to think of it on those terms.
1) It sets up healing and buffs through set ups or as secondary effects, often through damage.
--OR it protects the one who uses the skill, while still targeting the enemy.
2) It denies and reverses enemy advantages such as healing.
--OR It punishes the enemy, instead of shutting them down
3) It deals more damage against stripped enemies rather than through combos
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So if you want to expand on this, forget the blood and vitality mindset, you are missing the big picture.
You want to give it skills for the long distance mage? Go for it. What does a long distant mage need?
Well, how about a skill that doesn't cripple the enemy but instead deals damage if they move and how far they move? AND allow it to combo off of Teleport.
Last edited by Neonivek; 26/12/16 09:04 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
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You can't get rid of Rain of Blood as it serves two purposes.
...
The other is it is by far overpowered... Dealing any percent of your HP as damage is absolutely devastating. 20% of your health can be 60 damage or more... More then AP skills typically do.
---
So here is what Necromancy currently does
Necromancy is a skill set made to synergize mostly with frontline attackers, most notably Leechers but it isn't a requirement. It combos also with Air (and Earth/Water to a lesser extent). It has two main purposes, to sustain your frontline warriors indirectly (more set up based) and to deny the enemy the same through powerful CC-options. All the while being focused more on physical attack (Earth being the only int skillset of mixed types).
So you need to think of it on those terms.
1) It sets up healing and buffs through set ups or as secondary effects, often through damage.
--OR it protects the one who uses the skill, while still targeting the enemy.
2) It denies and reverses enemy advantages such as healing.
--OR It punishes the enemy, instead of shutting them down
3) It deals more damage against stripped enemies rather than through combos
...
Well, how about a skill that doesn't cripple the enemy but instead deals damage if they move and how far they move? AND allow it to combo off of Teleport. I'll say I agree Rain of Blood doesn't need to go, though maybe it could do a small amount of damage to enemies. Could be a separate skill like the OP's suggestion (Soul Punisher). Dealing damage as a percent of HP obviously will take some balancing --though 20% being 60 damage would mean a 300 health character, which would mean almost pure investment in CON until about level 8 I think. Still, 10-15% might be better. A pure intelligence mage can easily do that kind of damage with multiple abilities, though obviously they aren't gaining damage AND health like a CON mage would, so probably the necro damage should be less. But doing damage as a percent of current health is an interesting dynamic, especially if that ability heals, since it will deal more damage when it's less useful for healing. I'm not sure if I like that or not, though, since it makes it kind of seem like the skill is being wasted a little no matter when you use it. I'm not sure if necromancy quite as a clear identity yet with as few of skills as it has, but I think you're mostly correct in your assessment, as a sort of debuff/soft cc/reversal/self-sustaining tree, so damage should definitely be on the lower side with all the utility it grants. I do feel like it could be somewhat more viable as a primary skill tree for a character, though, which a bit more damage and more debuffs and reversal skills could allow for. It could sort of be the tank skilltree, too. I like the idea of a skill that makes characters take damage for moving, too. Perhaps it even actually grants a movement speed buff, to make it possible to go either way to be used a buff or a debuff.
Last edited by Baardvark; 26/12/16 10:24 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2015
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It really could be a more viable solo tree that can stand more strongly on its own merits without relying AS much with synergy combos (Ignoring that the game is all about Synergy combos) It just needs to keep with the theme. Right now what people dislike most about it is the fact that it doesn't synergize with the typical magics. But doing damage as a percent of current health is an interesting dynamic, especially if that ability heals, since it will deal more damage when it's less useful for healing. I'm not sure if I like that or not, though, since it makes it kind of seem like the skill is being wasted a little no matter when you use it. A skill that does more damage the more health you have? hmm... Or lets reverse that thinking. A skill that deals more damage to the target the more you are healed by (to a maximum, because First Aid Broke yo) or overhealed by (preferably just healed by) Why? Because it combos with Leech, Mosquito Swarm, Restoration, First Aid, Bless, and even the necromancy skill itself allowing it to combo with ALL skill types... AND it would be a skill both frontline and backline could use. Turning your health into the enemy's bane. As well because I suggested a damage cap, it doesn't need to be resisted.
Last edited by Neonivek; 26/12/16 10:35 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Feb 2015
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Current Necromancy and possesion with blood is plain.
Previous Witchcraft and focus for Voodoo/DarkNature/Sacrifice/Possess spell school was more interesting.
Last edited by gGeo; 27/12/16 04:03 AM.
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Dec 2016
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You can't get rid of Rain of Blood as it serves two purposes.
1) Is is there for Blood healing
2) It is there for Leach.
If you are going to alter Necromancy you should understand how the skills are intended to be used first.
For example Mosquito Swarm being magic armor instead of physical armor would actually be a detriment. Since not only do you remove the Physical Synergy, but Wizards actually do benefit from having both physical and magical attacks.
---
In fact the big problem with your Necromancy "Fix" is you are thinking of it as being purely for magicians AND completely stuck in the first game mindset of no multiclassing at all costs.
The other is you, like many others, completely underestimate Necromancy because your stuck in a purely magician mindset. Mosquito swarm isn't useless, not only does it do good damage against anyone who lost their physical armor, but it is decent for topping off HP.
The other is it is by far overpowered... Dealing any percent of your HP as damage is absolutely devastating. 20% of your health can be 60 damage or more... More then AP skills typically do.
---
So here is what Necromancy currently does
Necromancy is a skill set made to synergize mostly with frontline attackers, most notably Leechers but it isn't a requirement. It combos also with Air (and Earth/Water to a lesser extent). It has two main purposes, to sustain your frontline warriors indirectly (more set up based) and to deny the enemy the same through powerful CC-options. All the while being focused more on physical attack (Earth being the only int skillset of mixed types).
So you need to think of it on those terms.
1) It sets up healing and buffs through set ups or as secondary effects, often through damage.
--OR it protects the one who uses the skill, while still targeting the enemy.
2) It denies and reverses enemy advantages such as healing.
--OR It punishes the enemy, instead of shutting them down
3) It deals more damage against stripped enemies rather than through combos
---
So if you want to expand on this, forget the blood and vitality mindset, you are missing the big picture.
You want to give it skills for the long distance mage? Go for it. What does a long distant mage need?
Well, how about a skill that doesn't cripple the enemy but instead deals damage if they move and how far they move? AND allow it to combo off of Teleport. Just what Necromancy actually "does" in alpha stage, unless you are a front-line (which is usually 2h or rouge, for it's sweet healing on vitality), there is no reason for you to pick it over other tree/elements when playing mage. Hydro heal better, air give more CC, Earth give one hell of a good combo with pyromancer, pyromancy is pure damage; necromancer is just lackluster, and sometimes dangerous as higher level enemies usually have air arrow/skill at dispose. What i'm trying to do here is bring in a new type of mage, tank-mage with a sustainable tree and enough damage that so she doesn't rely on strength or intelligent to deal damage as other classes. Some skill is OP as it seem because this is just a suggestion, change will always be considered. Trying to use bloodrain with the witch fight, oh my happy go lucky get stunned by a monkey. And also poisoned. I really don't like current Necromancy tree, which is mostly benefit to front-line tank (not even that good as others), and it doesn't have much to stand on it's own. At least witchcraft had summons.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2015
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The goal of every character is to use a selection of spells and to chose the best combination. I really don't like current Necromancy tree, which is mostly benefit to front-line tank (not even that good as others), and it doesn't have much to stand on it's own. You know... it sounds more like you don't like Necromancy because it isn't a backline spell-type... Then actually disliking Necromancy on its own merits. "Not even as good as others" You say... When both Chains and Touch of Decay are immensely useful. Mosquito Swarm does decent damage. --- I am reminded of Lightning Runner and many of the touch spells in DOS1... Where as a mage you would never touch them because they are far too risky. --- At least witchcraft had summons. Ahh here is the meat. I now see the argument "Necromancy doesn't deal a lot of damage, thus it isn't as good as the other skills" I disagree that a skill NEEDS to be damage all the time in order to be good. Witchcraft proves this well. What are its best skills? Malediction, Mass Weakness, Charm, Elemental immunity, destroy summon, and Curse. It does indeed also have the strongest summon in terms of raw damage, but even if you never touched it you wouldn't lose out. Yet where would I put Witchcraft in terms of the skill hierarchy if I took out summons? It would still be one of the best skill trees in the game and almost essential.
Last edited by Neonivek; 28/12/16 11:16 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2016
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What I love about DOS-series is the multi-classing: My air-scoundrel-shieldtank-Wolfram was probably our most deadliest fighter in DOS not-EE. I also liked my glas-cannon-support-mage wich had point in pretty much every mage-skill-class and got about 24 AP in round 2 for heavy buff-debuffing combos. You really felt powerful that way. About the debuffing stuff, there remains the main issue with the current protection system we are already are adressing here: http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=597486#Post597486Without a decent amount of damage, all debuffs are useless, because they can't get used anyway.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2015
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Which Warriors supply amply.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2016
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Warriors, rangers and scoundrels support physical damage, not magical damage. So they don't help that much with magic armor. 
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2015
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Warriors, rangers and scoundrels support physical damage, not magical damage. So they don't help that much with magic armor. Necromancy is physical.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2016
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Warriors, rangers and scoundrels support physical damage, not magical damage. So they don't help that much with magic armor. Necromancy is physical. Not exactly so. Mosquito Swarm cares about physical armour. Infect deals the biggest damage to Magical armour you can do in this game at the moment. Hit them with that and then your Aero or Pyro of choice and you are golden. Not sure about earth things. Poison and Earth seem a bit confused at the moment.
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