Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Saving Throw, CC and (Magic) Armor rework!

So I've had an idea on how to rework the current system without changing it too much, but bringing back saving throws based on Armor and Magic Armor (which I'll just call armor from now on).


The objective of this rework is to reduce the amount of CC you can spam on a character after you've wore down their armor by adding a real saving throw + probabilities of CC being applied, something close to D:OS EE; while also adding the option to try a risky CC by playing with chances, BEFORE you've zeroed the target's armor (in case you need that cc RIGHT NOW!).

My solution is actually quite simple, and is divided in two steps; also I'll use a base 80% of applying a CC in the next calculations to make it clearer. We can imagine it's Blinding Radiance and that it has a baseline 80% to blind targets:

1. Use the current % out of your maximum armor as a saving throw. So at full armor you'd have a 100% saving throw. Using Blinding as the example, that'd be a roll of 80 - 100 = -20% chance to apply blind (it fails).

At 50% armor (let's say you're at 22/44 armor), it becomes 80 - 50 = 30% to apply. At 0 armor it becomes 80 - 0 = 80% chance to apply.

2. The second step is an implementation of the old or a new system to boost status effectiveness and improve upon multispeccing.

Right now, every skill has a 100% chance of happening once you cast it, regardless of how invested you are in that skill line or primary attribute.

What I propose is a general lower baseline of success but it improves based on how many skill points you have put into that line.

For example, Haste might have a 70% baseline chance of success. At Pyrokinect 2, it improves by a %, and goes on linearly from that. Maybe 5-20% per point (depending on the big the cap is and how long the game is).

My reasoning for working skills/spells out of their skill line is to allow for more hybridization without gimping too hard. Such as a battlemage's Aerotheurge spells depending not on his INT, which he'd be less invested in, but on his actual Aerotheurge. This way I can keep my character relevant and viable damage wise, but can bring/keep the utility by spending a few extra points where I want it.

This also prevents dipping a point in each line and getting access to such realiable and powerful utility so easily.

Of course this is subjective to what I've seen in the game so far, and of course if this doesn't sound good we could go back to spells/skills scaling with their primary attributes (or no scaling at all), but I feel it'd be a step in the wrong direction regarding character building.

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This was all conjecture and I don't necessarily think Haste needs a 70% baseline success and that Blinding Radiance needs a 80% baseline chance to blind. These were just examples to illustrate what I mean.

I believe these changes would deepen the gameplay a little bit beyond "wear their armor down and chain CC after CC" or "whoever loses armor first loses". This all can be improved upon, but I hadn't have much time to think about it, yet.

My last point in this is how the current system isn't frustrating nor exciting enough. Landing a CC against the odds can be super exciting, as much as missing a CC can be super frustrating if you had a 95% of it working. But this is a core part of traditional RPG games, mainly tabletop ones, where you had to roll die and pray to the gods for a 20.

Let me know what you think!

The problem is: There are people who totally hate this kind of RNG and people like me who kind of love it, because it makes a fight less predictable and forces you to have a plan B. ^^

The point being is that you can avoid the RNG by allocating skills properly and by dealing with their armor first.

My biggest gripe with how it's playing currently is how it's basically a flowchart, there's nothing mixing combat up.

Buff the knight.

Group them up.

Crippling Blow/Battering Ram/Groundstompy.

It's too effective, but the problem is that it's too reliable. It just doesnt' fail. What if your mage that only has 1 in Pyro fails his haste? What if the Knight's Adrenaline fail because he doesn't have enough Scoundrel?

It doesn't need to be extreme, but even if one of these fails 5 outta 100 times, it still makes you think of a contingency plan.

I hate RNG.
Which is another reason for me to love DOS2 because the RNG is practically non-existant.
It's a strategy game, not a dice game. Adding more RNG to it is like adding a dice roll to a chess game to see whether or not you get to eat your opponent's piece or skip your turn.

I agree to that what i want changed is just a nerf on spells like chain lightning which one-shot your magic armor creating a need for exceedingly cautious play. I'd prefer if it didn't stun my mages at least so i have a chance to react to such things rather than be forced to tank it.

Except it's not a strategy game, it's an RPG game, which also advertises itself as basically a pen and paper rpg, except digital.

If yo hate RNG you can just play with the "new"/suggested system just like you're playing currently: deplete armor and then CC, no chances taken. Baseline 100% chance to work will work 100% of the time if you get rid of their saving throws.

The infinite CC plan only works when there is not enough enemies or the enemies is too close, the simple solution is just adding more enemies and reduce skills effective area.

I like randomness sometimes (like loot), but there's a nice reliability to how CC works in the game. CC wins and loses fights, so making it unpredictable can lead to situations where none of your CC applies and it feels like you lose just from some dice rolls. I feel like the sense of "randomness" should come somewhat from AI behavior throwing you off, and just the general diversity of fights rather than just pure RNG.

Not that the armor system is perfect or anything, but essentially scrapping the whole concept of immunity for a progressive reduction in resistance kind of defeats much of its point. The mod in my signature limits the amount of time a particular hard CC (knockdown, stun, fear, etc) can be on a target for 2 out of 5 turns. It's kind of an arbitrary solution, but it at least requires a diversity of CC to keep enemies permastunned.

I think you guys are missing the point.

I'm not saying make it completely random like you guys think it is.

After you reduce the enemy's armor to 0 you basically have the current iteration we have right now, save *maybe* multispecced characters not being completely reliable.

The propositon is to add chances in case you want to take them, and that's it. If you want to blow a CC a turn early for a 70% success or wait for a couple more hits for a guaranteed 100%, it's still there.

The system wouldn't force randomness on anyone.

If that's what it announce itself has, well it isn't labeled correctly.

This is absolutely not a tabletop RPG. This is a strategy RPG.


Except that it would, because enemies could CC you due to RNG or you could CC an enemy due to RNG when you just wanted to use Battle Stomp for the damage it does or you attacked with a weapon that has a chance to stun on it.

I like that this suggestion supports taking calculated risks. Right now, in many battles, it feels like there's often a "correct" move to make, which means that there aren't many interesting choices for the player to make; at that point, I don't see the point in having the battles at all - the game can just tell you who wins. This isn't pure randomness - if you really want to make sure that your strategy can succeed, you have to plan for it and possibly sacrifice some versatility in order to be really strong at one thing.

The second part makes a lot of sense, too. This early in the game, it seems pretty silly that one character can reliably buff themselves with Haste, Adrenaline, and Rage (studies from three different schools) and still have enough focus to swing a sword any better than moderately well. It should take investment to be really good at things.

I wrote about this before. I guess, the devs think that this thing goes against multiclass heroes, since they won't be able to reliably apply statuses. It was better with chances in DOS1, but I still think that the ability to apply statuses, as well as to resist them, should come with attributes. Strength and intelligence for applying physical and magical, agility for magical resistance, vitality for physical resistance. Strength for physical armor, intelligence for magical armor, agility for crit chance, vitality for APs. This way each stat gives an offensive and defensive part, and all class stuff should go around skill points and talents. More skill points - more advanced skills, and may be some more features. If fire school adds fire damage and fire resistance, than if you skip one point in fire and add it, for example, in warfare, which adds physical damage resistance and physical damage, you don't lose as a fire mage and don't lose as a ph-based unit in case you have multishool skills, which deal both fire and physical damage at a time. It's about skillcrafting which the devs want to introduce soon. That is the perfect way to incourage people for replaying the game many times in my opinion.

I proposed the exact same few days before.
Barely few people read, answered couple, non get the core idea.
So I am to going scream with you :

Option to take a risk is advantage.
Option to work on strip armor then apply a permastun
OR
Option to take a risk and try that now.

Also, the 2 kinds of armor should be rather 3 connected to 3 main stats Str,Int,Dex. that way you get Reflex saving throw for traps, lighting spells, knock down and so on. e.g. you would rather Knock Guick silver rogue or a clumsy mage? Those kind of decisions are missing in current system. Strip it and knock it. No matter who is it, no matter what skill, attributes or whatever, still the same way to deal with it. So it feel boring and plain.

However, option to save in combat should be changed like, if you save in combat you load on the first round.

You are not the first to over this kind of 'successrate' depends on the state of armor. You made it further by reducing the base chance aswell. But as I mentioned, the community is very devided at this topic, because of many detest any kind of RNG. (Wich kind of would mean to remove as whole aswell, in the end it is RNG aswell.)

I personally find it more appealing like the current: CC yes or no bullshit, but it does not look, like Larian is consindering any change. I still miss body building and willpower, because increasing those gave you a better feeling of have gotten stronger.