Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback Rage

This may be an unpopular opinion but I believe RAGE (capitalised for effect) has been nerfed a little too harshly.
While I do think that the original 1 ap, 2-3 turn duration Rage was too strong I think that 2 ap for a 1 turn duration skill isn't worth anyone's time, especially in a skill school with a tonne of gap closers.

I was thinking maybe instead of 2 ap and 1 turn duration it could be 2 ap and 2-3 turn duration, 0 ap and 1 turn duration or just be 1 ap and 2-3 turn duration however after the effect ends there could be a fatigued effect lowering start and turn ap by -1/-2 for a few turns. I realise I haven't really thought it through too much but it doesn't seem like a skill worth taking at the minute even with warlord (and what would a Berserker want with strategy anyway).

What do you guys think? I am definitely open to whatever people think and how they use RAGE

Wait, so rage now only lasts for the turn you use it on? If so, yeah, that's brutal, especially with 2 AP. So you basically guarantee one attack gets a crit (ideally a whirlwind), maybe two or three if you flesh sac and haste and warlord/glass cannon.

Probably it's still quite good if you can get off a whirlwind, crippling blow, and bull rush, all hitting 3+ enemies. But that requires specifically building a character and setting up towards that combo, even moreso than before. And other than that combo, its a pretty meh skill. Barring dropping it from +100% crit chance, I think it might be the best solution to greatly limit it and make it fairly build dependent. I haven't played with the new rage though so I can't really say how it plays now.

Completely agree with the OP. New Rage is just about useless and I don't pick it up anymore.

Even if a character pools 6 AP, it doesn't help. Crits only cause 50% more damage by default, meaning after spending 2 AP, you have 4 left and you get 6 AP worth of damage due to the guaranteed crit.
But, you still had to spend the memory on Rage, and you still lose 100% dodge and resistances until the next turn, and you gain no benefit from any critical damage you had.

Sure, if you also use Adrenaline or Flesh Sacrifice or have a high boost to your Critical Damage stat you can actually get some damage increase, but it's a lot of work to get an actual use-case.

The ability should be high-risk, high reward, but instead it's almost always high-risk and 0 reward.

I actually liked all of the older versions of rage, even though were too strong, because they were fun. Also, I still don't like that when Rage is active all critical strike Stat becomes useless.
I think a flat % damage boost for Rage would be more appropriate than a guaranteed Crit. It would also make the ability work on Backstabs.

I really liked the old option of debuffing enemies with Rage too. It made the ability much more flexible, and made it useful for mages too.

I hope Rage gets a buff or else it will be almost entirely unused. I'm not sure if that's worse than being overused, but at least the ability used to be fun.

Okay yeah, if that is the case, then Rage is not really worth it. I really should play the alpha. *sigh* Had too much stuff to do this week.

Hilariously we are hitting a sort of point where things are being balanced because of other things in existence.

For example... Flesh Sacrifice and Adrenaline.

Anyhow I know what issue they are having. The issue is that there is absolutely no reason not to get rage unless it is limited in some respect.

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Here is an alternate solution... that is a bit silly but hear me out.

Rage applies the turn AFTER you use it... AND puts you at the top of the initiative stack.

Still costs 2ap... but with that initiative boost all of a sudden it is seeming a bit better doesn't it?

Hm with that you could COMPLETELY ignore levelling wits so its needs to be a certain amount i.e. + 5 intiative to limit it's capabilities.

Rage is fine the way it is right now. It doesnt need a buff. I suggest you guys take a look into your character builds. Rage is an absolute must have if you want to deal insane burst damage during the 2 turns. Enemies are falling like flies for me atm and I feel like they dont really need to make my character stronger as it is now. 2ap cost from 1ap is fine.

Okay so before I told fellowa that obviously he must be wrong, I first decided to test it.

I made a Death Knight Lizard with Rage and fought the Voidwoken Voidlings on the beach. I used Rage on my first turn, leaving me with 2 AP which was not enough to actually reach the enemy, so I ended my turn and let the enemies come up.

The OP is wrong and it does not end on the same turn you use it. Rage does persist for the following turn, with a 0 turn duration, so you can have a full 6 AP to use attacking.

Yeah, "set Enraged for 1 turn(s)" meaning 2 turns of Enraged is very misleading.

In light of this, I agree with fellowa.

Rage is no longer a must-have for all builds, instead it's situational but can add significant damage in the right builds.

E.g. A Two-Handed warrior with +50% crit damage from Skill passive, a +50% crit damage weapon, and the default +50% will do 2.5x damage on all crits.
With 2 turns of 4AP each, that's 6 AP left after casting, which multiplies to 15 AP worth of damage, almost double the damage he would have done (assuming no/low crit chance.)
This doesn't even take into account other things that could add more synergy including: pooling AP first, glass Cannon, Adrenaline, Haste, Flesh Sacrifice, Warlord, capitalizing on Skill cooldowns during that window, or having an ally buff you with Rage first.

Rage still has the drawback of losing all dodge, taking double elemental damage, and no synergy with Crit Chance, but I guess it's in a good place.

I'd still rather it be altered to a % damage boost. Not necessarily a buff, but something to allow the skill's use to not clash with Crit Chance and Backstab.

I find the whole turn duration for several skills for misleading. I often am a bit confused whether a status will end this turn or next. I wish this could be a bit more clear somehow.

Since Rage DOES last essentially 2 turns (sort of 1.5 turns, really) as it did before (I was surprised they would add that nerf without noting that anyway), I think it's most certainly still very good if used intelligently. Error3 explains it perfectly. Basically converts 6 AP = 15 AP worth of damage. And indeed, that doesn't even capture how much Rage synergizes with AOE attacks.

Using Error3's setup of 250% crit multiplier, let's say you're using 6 AP to whirlwind, crippling blow, and bullrush (polymorph rush) three enemies each. That roughly triples the value of the damage bonus per AP. Is that, what, 6 AP equaling ~40 AP worth of damage non-rage standard attack damage? Perhaps that's a little exaggerated, but even 6 AP = 15 AP of damage is phenomenal, so any improvement to that ratio is incredible.

Obviously a 250% crit multiplier is very idealized (I think a 300% crit multiplier is possible if you max scoundrel and two-handed with +50% crit mult. weapon), but even achieving a 175% crit multiplier and using AOE attacks is very effective.

A single AP was hardly going to make the difference from the most damaging strategy in the game to balanced. The much more significant nerf was removing its use as a debuff on enemies. Even limiting the ability to pick up any skill with 1 point won't make that much of a difference. I daresay one could remove or greatly reduce the resist/dodge penalty and just make it a source skill. Or it needs a complete rework.

A few ideas for possible alterations:

I'd like a 0 AP Rage that actually only lasts 1 turn. From the current turn to the start of your next.
This would make the ability more-usable without increasing its overall power level. Then we could focus on the intended trade-off of extra damage for loss of defense.

It's kinda odd the way it works now. You can do more damage, but mostly later since you're losing 2 AP to start doing it. You're often trading now damage for future damage. I think Rage would feel better if it gave an instant boost, more similar to Adrenaline.

Or maybe, make it a stance like in DoS1. You toggle Rage mode and gain a constant smaller buff to damage with smaller defense drops, but it costs nothing and is maintained. Perhaps with a cooldown before you can disable it.

Getting stances back hmm I honestly don't want them back because the way they did it in original sin EE felt half-assed and not the least compelling. I'd want them to go all out with stances and either make alot of class exclusive stances or stances which specialize in certain areas.

0ap is way overpowered. Even if it's one turn. If you have the tp skill, You can stack up enemies and with adrenaline and flesh sacrifice and skin graft, the battle can be done on that players turn if you have warlord active. That extra 2ap can used on an extra attack on that first turn of combat. If you want a buff. It can be 1ap, for 1 full turn (ends on your next turn). 3turn cool down.

Agree. Flexible skills which have alternative usage that is fun.
However, I see Rage rather a self buff or enemy target debuff. Definitely not ally buff.
When you allow ally buff that turns warrior school into a cleric-caster. This game already has 7 SEVEN school of casters/buffers. It would be great to keep at least one as a self sufficient warrior. Warrior attacks, or disrupt attacks of enemies. For buffing allies there are others.

Also consider Rage as state of mind activated by external circumstances. Pain or stress. Therefore full activation of Rage on button is artificial.
Rather make it a slight debuff for 3 rounds, which has a high chance on HP loss turn owner into a fight machine. For this functionality, the stance DOS1 mechanic would work great.