Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Disillusioned thief - opinions, solutions?

I usually love the thief/assassin archetype in RPGs. I love being sneaky, and sometimes the darker delights are all too tempting, especially if IRL I had a bad day. NPCs beware ;) Clearly, scoundrel/poly-Sebille seemed perfect for that.

I'd like to share my perception of this type of gameplay up to now (admittedly only just reached Driftwood) -- sadly it's not turned out the way I hoped it to, and I was wondering if people have made different experiences and what, if anything, they'd like to see done about it.

The current implementation of the rogue skillset (sneaking, thievery) is rather demotivating to me. Simply put, I find that there is too much clairvoyance involved on the part of NPCs.

- "Pickpocketing counter": The main feature of skillful pickpocketing is that you are not noticed during the feat. The owner will simply realise that the item is gone, and probably be more wary of future pickpocketing attempts if the item was valuable. There is no reason, however, why PC thief #1 should be unable to pickpocket him/her again, while PC thief #2 can merrily have another go. We already have a useful maximum weight/value mechanic, why add a counter-intuitive... counter (I'll show myself out) on top of it? The absurdity of this mechanic is tragicomically both highlit and worked around by exploiting throw-away thief characters to repeatedly pickpocket the same NPC vendor after every inventory reset... but I refuse to do that for obvious reasons.

- "Warning: Item secured by RFID and alarm systems." Seriously, the way vendors and guards 'know' that that one book you nicked from that table littered with dozens of books is suddenly gone borders on heavenly (or hellish?) inspiration. How a guard is supposed to know that the pair of gloves that 'fell into your pockets' in a neighbouring village is stolen remains a mystery to me; similarly, I find it hard to imagine that a note in an unwatched tent displays reticence to being stolen and alerts every guard in the vicinity (perhaps it's the bastard progeny of Harry Potter's Howling Letters?). Apparently a work-around some people use is to place a 'tanker' character somewhere remote and transfer everything stolen directly to him, out of Clairvoyant Guards' Tom, Dick and Harry reach... but eh? Not RP-y enough for me. An idea to fix this mechanically could be to change the thievery skill. Currently it only affects pickpocketing and lockpicking -- why not make it so a highly skilled thief can remove the 'stolen' flag from higher-value items as she picks them up? If deemed necessary for balance, make this skill interact with the general 'crime awareness' mechanic.

- Stealth as a combat mechanic: It's simply disheartening. Forfeiting an entire round worth of AP for a laughable damage buff for one attack in the next round... but only if you pick an extra talent, and only if you forfeit valuable social skills to invest heavily in stealth, and only when the combat is almost over anyway (it's practically impossible to not be in one of the 5+ mobs' cone of vision while it still matters; if there's only 1-2 mobs left, stealth usually makes no difference any more on the outcome of the battle)... seems quite lacklustre. I'm not sure that working around the system by making other group members engage enemies while the thief remains out of combat and sneaks around on her own time while everybody else magically holds their breaths is engaging gameplay. Given the value of those precious skill points -- especially if you include opportunity costs, i.e. the benefit of picking up e.g. persuasion instead --, stealth could definitely use a bit more oomph. AP cost should simply be reduced (maybe 2 is more appropriate?), or scale again with skill as in previous divinity games. Alternatively, the 'Guerilla' talent could receive a significant buff. Both would probably be the easiest alternatives to implement, but also not very creative. Another option could be giving stealth a defensive (passive?) mechanic in combat, so that enemies at range suffer increasing penalties to their to-hit chances.

As it is now, I was quite sad having to spec my beloved main character rogue-Sebille out of both stealth and thievery to make her a significantly more valuable group member. Lockpicking? In most cases simply replaced by smashing things. Thieving in general? Don't do it any more, can't be arsed with clairvoyant guards. Pickpocketing? Useless unless exploited -- don't do it any more. Stealth? No significant benefit either in combat or out of combat that I can see; movement skills and backstabs are far more efficient. I'd rather play my Sebille as a femme fatale then and put the points into persuasion instead. And even then, I sometimes cannot shake the gloomy feeling that my scoundrel/polymorph-Sebille is less useful than my wayfarer/summoner-Ifan who puts out incredible damage from the (relative) safety of range AND boasts group utility with pet talk, heals and status management. =/

I've been using a different method to counter the stolen items dilemma that at least feels slightly more immersive (to me anyways). Instead of just transferring the item to a far off companion, I stash the item in a nearby, free-use storage object. Afterwards going through the dialog and showing my inventory to prove I have no stolen items. Then I walk away with free loot and no penalties. It makes a little more sense to me, as it feels like I'm actually tricking the npc, in my mind at least. I still find it absurd that if I steal unique gear from them and then talk to them later while wearing it that it doesn't phase them in the least.

It is a little disappointing that only hunstman can make use out of the combat bonuses for sneak imo. Even then it's only for starting a combat. Since melee rogues will just get detected trying to get close enough for that initial hit, even if it did work they'd be s/o stuck in the middle of all the enemies anyway (and wouldn't be that effective considering how armor works now). So far it feels like the only relevant uses for sneaking are stealing or light scouting. Even then, I haven't had to invest any points into sneak to successfully steal anything on my MC yet.

I don't really have anything to add to your gripes about picking pockets, you pretty much hit the nail on the head and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I wish games would stop having psychic guards. I know it takes more effort/time/money to implement a more detailed crime system into games, but the former just feels busted. At very least I think a combination of your suggestion in having the ability to remove stolen flags and some kind of time frame before everyone is alerted to do so would be a simple solution to help *alleviate* the issue (something similar to murders would be cool to).

It's worth mentioning that the Cloak & Dagger skill from Scoundrel allows you to self-teleport and remain hidden/invisible. So you could use that to get behind an enemy, or use it to escape and go back to sneaking.


Some sort of fence or launderer for stolen items would be neat. Or possibly, the ability to extract the "magic" in an item and transfer it to a new one with crafting. For instance, you steal a ring with +1 strength, and then transfer that bonus to a new ring, destroying the original in the process and effectively removing the "stolen" tag.

Don't know, in reality they probably check your surroundings aswell, before giving up. It is a pretty standard stuff, to hide the stolen goods.

Hey folks,

thanks for your answers. I like the idea to stash the stolen goods until things blow over, why didn't I think of it? Good point, thank you I also really like the idea of disenchanting stuff to put the properties onto a similar item, but I guess that'll take a lot of work on Larian's/a genius modder's part...

Just to make sure I'm not missing anything: There's no way to remove the 'stolen' tag at all, right? And when I steal something, I have to stash *all* stolen goods I'm carrying (also those from earlier... erm... slightly creative acquisitions) or be bust?

At the moment due to the niggling frustrations I've let go a bit of the 'thief' archetype and turned more into a shadowblade, really, though I might give it a try again. Has any of you actually managed to pull off a melee stealth build in combat? I really don't use stealth any more... like... ever. Chamaeleon Skin to escape tricky situations, sure, but stealth? Now Cloak and Dagger (indeed! without stealth though...) and Spread your Wings... those beauties... mmm...

I think you only have to worry about hiding stolen goods until the "heat" dies down. I can't say for sure though, since I tend to just steal gold or skill books I need, both of which prevent me from getting caught, since I use the skill book right away, and use the gold to buy the items I need.

You could also just buy the items you want and steal the gold back, once you have enough gold to do so.



I haven't used stealth too much in combat, besides hiding with chameleon skin or abusing Ranger's snipe back before it got nerfed. That's a good idea for a challenge though! Maybe I'll try seeing how far I can push the melee stealth idea.

Off the top of my head, I would probably go Undead just to abuse Play Dead as a way to reset aggro. Especially if you're solo, you could teleport away from line of sight, Play Dead to leave combat, then go into stealth and initiate combat once more.

I got to Amadias sanctuary, and the Fire book vendor searched me and somehow found out I stole a repair hammer BACK IN FORT JOY.

How did it know in my clutter of an inventory that this repair hammer was stolen all the way in Fort Joy? The world will never know.

It was still flagged as stolen, that is the issue with the stolen flag.