Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Help/Tips/Tricks Venom Coating (And overall Rogue theorycrafting)

Hello guys,

I am currently waiting for friends to start up a run on tactician, so in the meantime, I am trying to theory craft the optimum Scoundrel build.

I was wondering about Venom Coating, the 1Geomancer 1Scoundrel skill. So here are my questions and I hope some of you guys that already went through the game can enlight me.

Is Venom Coating any good ?

Is it worth taking points into Geomancer for a Rogue type character ?

Where can you buy/find the tome for the first time ?

Is there another magic school that fits the Scoundrel better for a fully damage oriented build ?

If so, why ?

My theorycrafting brought me to running a Warfare/Scoundrel/Polymorph rogue, switching from dual daggers to spear according to situations (like when that boss puts his back onto a wall, ya know) and I am looking for a 4th "school" to invest point in, in order to maximize my dps.

Thanks for your answers and take care !

Is Venom Coating any good?
- Not vs undead for sure.

Is it worth taking points into Geomancer for a Rogue type character?
- I think Geomancer is better for tank builds due Fortify and other slowing, controlling stuff.

Where can you buy/find the tome for the first time?
- Not quite sure.

Is there another magic school that fits the Scoundrel better for a fully damage oriented build?
- Probably Necromancy or Pyro.

If so, why ?
- better Debuffs / Buffs

Venom coating doing magic damage... yeah.. noo.... not really worth it.

Geo can be useful for everybody, BUT rogue isnt that kind of character that should use it, rogue is best VERY specialized - as much damage as possible.

You cant buy this book, you have to craft it (any geo book, any scoundrel book))

Polymorph can help with mobility and survivability
Necromancy can help with ranged damage, buffs/debuffs and survivability
Pyro can help with buffs
Warfare can help with CC and damage.

Geo school can deal good damage.
my elemental rangers record is an impalement crit into flame explosion at lvl 16 did 2k damage earthquake is also an extremely awesome skill.

but for that high damage you would have to invest a few points into geo(10).

you can ofc just put one point into geo for venom coating and add venom runes into your dagger. that way you will probably break armor and magic shield of physical armor affine enemies at the same time.

whether this is ideal though is questionable. I don't see why you must have a fourth school to maximise damage output either. especially if you are not lone wolf this hardly makes any sense.

if you want to maximise damage you evenly spread your combat points into warfare / scoundrel / dual wield. Due to the exponential scaling. to be more precise because crit starts with a 50% damage bonus you woul dwant to invest 10 more points into warfare and dual wielding 10 dual 0 scoundrel 10 warfare 1.5*1.5*1.5 ~ 3.75... Damage bonus. compare that to 18 scoundrel 2 warfare no dual wield 1.0*2.4*1.1 ~ 2.64 bonus. evenly spreading the same points 7 dual 6 scoundrel 7 warfare 1.35*1.8*1.35~3.28...

this is a rough estimate however because I don't know how finesse factors into the equation. if dual wield and finesse behave additive and not multiplicative then you would want to take dual wield only for the evasion.

if warfare even scales additiv and not multiplicative then you would instead take the sum of finesse dual wield warfare and scale scoundrel to be equal to those.
but I'm fairly certain, that at least warfare is a multiplicative scaling factor.

Edit:
so I just did some detailed testing the damage formular for physical crits is as follows:

weapon damage * 1+(attribute+ weapon mastery)*5/100* 1+(warfare*5/100)* 1.5+(scoundrel * 5 / 100)

practically that just means to optimize your raw physical damage output you want 10 more warfare than scoundrel.


as a general observation though: if you guys want to play tactition and I highly recommend you do, cause that's where the fun fights take place. Glass cannons don't lead a healthy life. And a knocked down or frozen rogue deals no damage either.
high wits might be helpfull but is also a wasted stat. Wits should be a primary ranger stat to scale crits.

what I resort to instead: living armor to regain magic armor on any heal. I have high necro so I lifesteal a lot that counts too and use bone armor to get some stupid amounts of phys armor once one or two enemies are dead!
living on the edge and deathwish(necro) also has superb synergy 2 turns of not dying and a huge damage boost when on low life allow for a very mean comeback
many necro skills also deal physical damage so they scale well with warfare.

Alright thanks for your answer guys !

So if I get it, I should max Warfare, then Dual Wielding, then Scoundrel in order to maximize damage output.

Polymorph for the obvious utility.

And then maybe Pyromancer for Haste/Peace of mind and/or Necromancy for Death Wish, right ?

I fully understand the point of magical damage being rather useless for rogue, but since there's a lot of utility spells for Warfare and Scoundrel when paired with magic schools, I was wondering if any of those would be must pick for a Rogue type character in order to maximize dps, Venom Coating being my first guess.

I guess that in that regard, Pyro would be the best, providing buffs and situational stuff such as Sabotage.

What do you guys think ?

Ps : Just a thought but, if that Rogue character would happen to be Undead, would the little Geomancer investment be more logic ? I am wondering. I've been giving myself headaches trying to figure out which race would be better for Rogue, since Undead human provides useful stats and Play Dead, whereas Elf gives the almighty Flesh Sacrifice (which is always good, even though when coupled with Glass Canon it becomes trickier to use).

Venom Coating only coats one of the weapons. I would not take Geomancer with Scoundrel, it's not a good fit. However, Aerothurge has a number of support skills which are very good for mobility and enemy manipulation when paired with Scoundrel, like Teleport, Nether Swap, Favourable Wind, Uncanny Dodge.

I chose a Dwarf for my Rogue, the additional health and evasion chance can be helpful. I'm already at over 20% chance to dodge and I haven't left Fort Joy yet.

i just edited my post :P read up on damage calculation

as an undead geomancer AND necro makes a lot of sense as it scales your poison damage and whatever necro may offer as heals is also able to heal you.
thus poison becomes a healing and damaging tool. You're raw numbers might suffer a bit as you have to spread some points into int and memory but on the other hand you gain a lot of utility and sustain.

for a scoundrel there probably is also a route to breaking magic armor first.
in that case mages wouldn't be your primary targets though but the fighters / marksmen. with poison dart and venom coat you will probably break through their magic defense and then use terror + ripped tendon instead of chicken + ripped tendon and finish off with sawtooth blade.

you can coat your weapon with fire as well. probably turning every stab into a fiery poison explosion but I haven't testet that.
for such a route you would want to invest more heavy into scoundrel. as the crit damage will scale into your physical fire and poison damage on the coatings. would be very interesting to see how that plays out.
good thing you have free respec once you own the lady vengeance at all times so you can't really make any grave mistakes

That is true that Aerothurge has many utility spells, but I wonder if there are that useful if you take Glass Canon, like Uncanny Evasion wouldnt be that good then, right ? Also, idk how the smoke could of Aero/Scoundrel works but I don't think it prevents enemies to enter it and wreck you in half.

I keep mentioning Glass Canon because I like the AP it gives to maximize damage and I also like the Rogue playstyle of In and Out (thanks to Polymorph and its Chameleon Cloak and Spread your Wings).

The combo poison and fire on weapon could be indeed very interesting indeed, but it is magical damage, right ?

Again, thank you guys, you're helping me see it more clearly. And yet, I wonder, what would be the point of investing in Dual Wield ? Wouldn't it be better just to max Warfare for the physical damage boost and forget about any kind of weapon specialization, leaving the window open to switch in between spear and daggers ? From what I understood of your formulas, the % of Dual Wield adds up to the Warfare one (by multiplying), but isnt full Warfare better ?

After everything I've read here, I feel Necromancy might be what I was looking for. Challenge and kill an enemy on first/second turn, then combo the Challenge damage buff with Death Wish and Adrenaline for a crazy amount of damage on a boss for instance. Might be neat.

Let's keep discussing it !

Ps : I should rename the topic "How to make a Rogue character the ultimate being" hehe

If you take Glass Cannon, your only viable melee build includes "Walk it Off" and pumping all your Attribute points into CON and your Ability points into Perseverance. The AI knows you have Glass Cannon and will focus Hard CC on you.

Basically, don't take Glass Cannon. You won't really get the chance to use that extra AP.

Dual-Wielding is helpful for additional Evasion. I'm building my Rogue more for Evasion, so I'm choosing that over Warfare. I'm already at a 22% chance to evade, and I've seen it work many times. I think it's got some promise even this early on.

Is taking scoundrel beyond level 5 worth then? Isn't it better to go Warfare/Dual wielding?

I believe that Scoundrel is not worth maxing indeed, as it does not impact your damage as much as Warfare does.

Regarding the Glass Cannon thingy, with the change to Aerothurge stuns, wouldn't it be viable with Stench ? Play Dead might also be a major tool as a Glass Cannon rogue.

I'm not sure, but I think that the AI prioritizes killing Glass Cannons more than it does running away because of Stench. It should be easy enough to test once you get into Act 2.

I don't see Play Dead as being a useful tool for Glass Cannon. While dead, you're not contributing. When "alive", you're considered top priority and are targeted.

How is warfare better than dual wielding then? They both give 5% damage, but dual vielding also gives dodge

Warfare gives 5% more damage on every physical attack, Dual Wield gives 5% more damage on attacks using two one handed weapons. So let's say, you're using Necromancy too, Mosquito Swarm will benefit from Warfare (despite scalling on Intelligence, its physical damage) whereas Dual Wield wouldn't affect it all. It is, of course, if I understood it correctly.

Plus, I haven't really tested it, but I like to believe that not speccing into Dual Wield, leaves the possibility to use a Spear for harder hits on Warfare skills as a Finesse Rogue character (No idea at all if that's going be ever useful, but why not).

And btw, with the changes to Haste, I believe it is not as mandatory as it was, isnt it ?

Anyone knows if the smoke cloud of Aerothurge/Scoundrel if worth anything ?

smoke cloud complete negates ranged attacks. if they really want to hunt you they would have to come into melee range - 2ndly it allows you to go into sneak mode( though 3 ap for sneak is quite expensive ). so this is actually a quite neat tool.

dual wield vs warfare really comes down to more dodge or more damage.
i tested it with 6 points at lvl 17 with a 69 atk dagger. 6 dual wield had 260 atk while with 6 warfare i had 310 atk. this is very significant 20% more dmg and the difference becomes even bigger the more points you spend.

in regards to pure physical damage more than 5 in scoundrel definitely is not worth it.

so TLDR: pure physical damage priority is very likely always warfare > scoundrel > dual wield.

now that being said:
my scoundrel currently sports 7 in dual wield, parry master, receives leadership bonus of 6% and with the rest of equip (amulet rune 5%, 7% belt, 7% boots - that is rare! and something else not sure what it was) - it all sums up to 48% dodge and that is VERY very noticable.
at first I was very sad that finesse didn't give evasion anymore - but now I know why lol.
so dual wield can really pay off if we can push evasion up to the 80% mark. probably a high leadership tank can make that possible.