Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Game Master Just me? Or is GM mode not worth the time?

Just want to feel out some thoughts here, maybe others have investigated the problems further...

No town levels whatsoever
No pre-generated encounters/enemies
Incredibly linear levels
Necessary to spend TONS of time to fill in details - seems like in order to design a 1-2 hour adventure would take 8-12 hours.
Lack of flexibility in running campaigns (stuck managing the screen players are on, can only possess 1 NPC, max of 4 PCs, can't really adapt-on-the-fly to player choices
No NPC dialogue
I'm sure there are numerous examples not on the top of my head...

I'd just like to hear what others think about it...

I don't feel like I could just set up a campaign quickly that would actually entertain people that well... It feels like I'd have to invest a huge amount of time to create a quick hack-n-slash dungeon they run through

Now if somebody want to spend an EPIC amount of time learning the EDITOR part of it , creating levels, and setting up NPCs with dialogue and such, then you could create a total adventure for your players to enjoy... but it seems pretty lame overall...

What other things features could be added to improve the GM mode? It just feels like it is a half-ass editor really to me really.

I take it from your post this is your first experience with any sort of virtual tabletop. "4 hours" of prep time for an hour or two of play time is pretty much the norm. This goes all the way back to the Neverwinter Nights era 10 years ago who first attempted this VTT thing.

They did a pretty good job of it but what you are saying is right, it is a HUGE time commitment. Most people will just wait for the dedicated few to do most of the content building like NWN ended up being too. But you are also correct that right now the GM client is waaaay too limited for a fully realized Virtual Tabletop. I like to think now that they've released some resources can be dedicated into turning this thing awesome.

The game will only have true longevity around this gameplay mode if we are being honest. 4 players, and some of the limitations you mentioned will cause this thing to die on the vine, but given how early it is I'm still hopeful they kick this into high gear. There is -definitely- a market for it and has been for a good while.

GMing for role playing games has always taken a lot of dedication of time and resources. It can be like a 2nd full time job at times. I doubt GMing in DOS2 will be a whole lot different.

Could it be improved, oh yeah. Is it as bad as you seem to feel, no, not to me at least. It's got a ton of potential, especially as you point out, to those willing to put in some work with the editor. But, even for those not willing to, there will be a ton of great community created content such as towns and other large areas in very short order; already are a few out there.

Some of your complaints are pretty valid, such as no RTS style control of NPCs and monsters, but others are pretty trivial, such as dialogue. It's a role playing game, role play. I'd recommended grabbing a cheap headset and communicating via skype or discord and you'll never have issue with dialogue again.

GM mode was created to essentially bridge the gap between pnp rpgs and computer games. Treat it more like a pnp game and all that usually entails and less like a dungeon management sim and you'll be happier.

You are very correct that you'll have to spend some time creating an adventure/world for your players to inhabit for them to be happy, as is the case with any pnp rpg out there. Very few GMs have the skill to just improvise everything and still provide a great gaming experience for all. It does feel a bit clunky at the moment, but I'm sure I'll get the hang of it in short order.

I'm personally not going to try to use GM mode any differently than I would normally gm a pnp rpg. I'm not going to create maps for every tavern or hovel like you'd see in most pc games, but rather, I'm going to just narrate and use vignettes and RP with players to a great degree. I'll build/find appropriate maps for the important areas and for those with combat encounters and RP the rest. Basically, DOS 2 is going to be the coolest battle map ever.

We definitely need a gm+5 or 6 player mod though. I've got more than 4 friends.

There are some limitations that xould make things a lot better but I wouldnt say its a waste. Its basically running a virtual tabletop where you dont have to handle the combat.

I feel pretty much the same way as the OP.

I understand the GMing is a huge time commitment, however I hoped that the tools we were provided would mitigate some of that.

For a tabletop campaign, all I really need is the narrative, some proxy miniatures and a hastily scribbled map or two. To build a campaign on here I need to hand craft the areas I'm planning in an editor that I just don't have the time to truly master.

There are a few tweaks I'd make to the GM UI and options available, but I'm not so much disappointed with that as I am with the lack of content.

Some of the maps that have been placed in the toolkit are mind bogglingly small. Even the largest village tileset is a claustrophobic alley with a bunch of buildings that can't be utilised effectively.

At the moment I'm going to need to sit back and wait for the modding community to build some serious content before I come back and have another go.

I haven't seen any player made maps yet, can someone steer me to a few?

I've seen some in the steam workshop. I believe a couple of the ones Caiden has been making in his stream are there. Couple of people have uploaded levels from the campaign there too. Here are two I found with a quick glance at the workshop-

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1143320890&searchtext=
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1146148564&searchtext=

Now, I can't vouch for the quality of these maps as I haven't used them, but they're there for download. I'd imagine that they'll be lots more in a few weeks time. I know I'll release the ones I'm working on to the workshop once I'm satisfied that they're complete enough for use.

GM mode is ABSOLUTELY worth the time. The thing is, you don't tap into its true power unless you also build your own areas and stuff in the editor. When you combine GM mode with the editor, your imagination is the limit.



I have made 3 or 4 that are currently available in the mod in my signature.

I'm also working on a huge fortress at the moment.

I've been playing around with GM mode for a few days now and although it's highly limited, I still love it. I'll echo what's been said so far in that it's very much just putting a visual element to traditional pnp rpgs rather than letting you rebuild Divinity 2 with your own story (I gather that's what the editor's for).

I think people have brought up some very valid concerns with the GM Mode regarding functionality that would greatly benefit GMs (like being able to select groups of NPCs, RTS style. Enforcing camera position for certain scenes. Adding some more interactive objects for the purpose of animation or scripting. etc), but quite honestly I love the mode for what it provides.

Pnp RPG prep takes a goddamn age. I've only ever really GM'd Shadowrun, but the amount of work that goes into making a believable world is... exhausting. Saying that, we do it because we love it.
I tend to build my own library of NPCs/reward chests/enemies/special items and weapons in advance. Things that I know can just be dumped down on the fly. That way you don't really need to panic too much about building up every single aspect. The one thing GM mode is really good for is doing things on the fly.
If anyone has any hints and tips for making things run more fluidly, I'm all ears

Its more feustrating knowing what it could be with the missing features. I'm still putting together basically the same campaign I wanted. I'm just using status city maps for the story aspect. I've gotten some nice levels others made. I can't wait to abuse Shapes new level.

I'm currently working on a mod to port over a HUGE amount of items and placeables into GM mode that were left out. I'm also removing the camera limits on the default maps and making them much more customizable (being able to move / remove rocks, trees, wagons, fixing the blocked doors so you can place them, etc etc) and adding some basic structures you will be able to put down like towers, pillars and hopefully eventually walls so you can have a poor man's editor right in GM mode which *should* greatly improve your ability to throw things together "on the fly"

It will never have the power and customization of the Divinity Editor, but it will make it much easier to play the game off the cuff much like you would when running a real pen and paper session where you break out the minis and dry erase markers for an encounter
"OK this upside down cup is the sorcerers tower. Dan and the Dwarf are getting off the boat which is that banana laying there..."

You can check out the mods development here (it's nearly ready for a v1.0 release):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1140523854

I'm watching with great interest in your work, see it on Workshop and I'm guessing you will be one of those "highly dedicated" I'm speaking of. With Neverwinter Nights it was the DMFI (DM Friendly Initiative) team that crushed it and turned the game into a proper VTT after MUCH hard work on their part.

Best of luck, I did lots of scripting, module building in the NWN era so I know the heavy lift that is what you are undertaking right now. *hat tip*