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keln Offline OP
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I have been playing for a good chunk of time now, and I'm delighted to see that magic is a worthy damage choice... However, it outshines by FAR all of the physical abilities (counting melee attacks).


Magic delivers:
-heavy damage
-in an area
-with crowd control
-usualy adds various DoTs...
-oh, and gets the awesome height damage bonus
-requires no real investment to be able to use all of the schools with the same efficiency.

Now don't get me wrong, I find it awesome that magic is a worthy damage choice (in the previous game, magic was brokenly good for area CC and making your life a LOT easier, but did no damage later on in the game)


Melee (and ranged physical weapons) on the other hand:
-requires a "at character level" weapon to deal damage that could maybe rival magic
-has no splash damage or real AOE (though I haven't played with 2h weapons yet)
-no real difference between weapons. Sword, axe, mace, it doesn't really matter (since the three types of damage seem to have gone away) And rapiers are gone? smirk
-very, very little pool of available skills. Playing with daggers allows you to use warfare and dagger skills. But anything else (warfare or huntsman) only lets you off with a few skills and no real opportunity to have interesting chains, unless you splash with magic.

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So, that said, here is my suggestion for a reworked melee system:

=>Weapons have a 3 hit combo DEPENDING on what weapon is in your main hand (also works with ranger weapons).
This allows the player to make a choice: does he want the high damage numbers of this new axe, or does he prefer keeping the 3hit combo of his trusty greatsword?

=>any physical ability using 2 AP counts towards the combo

=>Combos work the following way:

*1st stage: no bonus damage or effect
*2cnd stage: bonus damage and minor side effect (cleave, pierce, lowers damage dealt, etc etc etc)
*3rd stage: major damage bonus and strong extra effect (a 2h mace would for example do a large slam on the ground, dealing massive AoE damage and making Oil errupt)


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Pros

=>This design gives the player more choices to make:
-Would I rather keep 2 AP to be able to pull off a huge combo in the next turn, or would I rather be able to do a minor combo each turn?
-What you chose to play with is more important than just looking and the damage numbers.

=>Makes the physical builds less reliant on finding new weapons every few levels.

=>more ways to combo with your partners.

=>More content?



Cons
=> May amplify the current powerpikes players have when they find a new top level weapon.

=> Does not change the fact that physical classes have less stuff to play with than magic classes (mages never auto attack. Never. Too many skills. While with my rogue, I often end up with all damage cooldowns activated).

=> Will make the physical damage dealing system a bit more complex (but come on, DOS2 is a complex game to start with grin )

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List of potential combos effects (besides the bonus damage:

1h weaponry

Axes:
2cnd stage: bleeds the target
3rd stage: in a cone, if the target is bleeding, sets "heavy bleeding"

Swords
2cnd stage: grants 5% chance to parry for 2 turns
3rd stage: next projectile or attack will be parried

Maces:
2cnd stage: deals +25% damage to armor
3rd stage: Sets suffocating in a cone.

Daggers:
2cnd stage: increases crit damage for the end of the turn
3rd stage: binds the character(can't use attacks), but gives him 2AP to reposition himself/use skills.

Wands? (Do magic caster really need *unlimiteeeeed* power?)
2cnd stage: Lower first skill cost by 1Ap next turn
3rd stage: First skill next turn has a 50% base chance to crit

RIP rapiers u_u (finesse based weapon that does not relly on backstabs, but are still worth using because endgame stats give you a bunch of crit chance %age)


2h weaponry

2h axe
2cnd stage: cleaves+ adds 10% damage per target hit
3rd stage: cleave+ cripples in a cone adds 10% damage per target hit

2h sword
2cnd stage: cleave+ increases damage by 25% if enemy has a higher HP %age than the player
3rd stage: cleave+ parangon buff: Resist "all" statuses for 2 turns

2h mace
2cnd stage: cleave+ targets take 50% increased damage if they still have armor
3rd stage: cleave+ slams the ground, dealing AOE damage and creating a puddle of oil.

2h staff ?
2cnd stage: next spell deals 100% increased damage
3rd stage: next spell deals damage as if the target had 0% elemental resistance


It could also be fun to add an elemental damage bonus to every 3rd stage of the combo(for example the 3rd stage 2h sword would make the targets burst in flame).

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Will update this post as ideas come along.

Last edited by keln; 01/10/17 09:09 AM.
Joined: Sep 2017
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why all guys talking about physical classes OPness smile
about shild throw with 6000k+ dmg in AOE(every 2 rounds)
oneshotes from 2-handed
easymod with assasins
about easy multipliers scaling for physical
etc

Uninteresting combos of phys schools? Like rapture tendons + chicken claw? smile Or some crasy 3 jumps in a round? tactical retreat-oneshot(+2 ap), omnistrike-oneshot(+2 ap), cloack and daggers-oneshot(+2 ap) ... fire jump... charge .. smile
do u have interesting magical non-cross-schools combos?
hydro only combos? Pyro only combos? not
all schools have very small pool of skills so u need to find some synergy to use interesting combos


Anyway i agree that schools needs rework. And not only physical. If u want Necro Mage u will receive alot of int based spells with phisycal dmg... i cant effectively shread any armor cos i have half magical half physical dmg and dont have alots of alternatives to be full magical NecroMage for exemple.

P.S. spell Rage. U can 100% crit with autoatack and weapon skills. But knokdown charge dont benefit from Rage as its not weapon skill, but u could miss with it like it is weapon dmg skill... ok...

Last edited by Roamer; 01/10/17 11:58 AM.

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keln Offline OP
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Magic scholls can remain magic only, while I have the feeling physical classes mostly have to splash magic spells (which I do)

The synergies for physical and magic classes are worlds appart.

The thing with the scoundrel skills, is that the require daggers.
And in terms of combos, it also feels worse than watching an entire room be set ablase by barrels and a well placed fireball.

One of my character is going full supersayan (laser beams n shit :D) while the other is still doing the same auto attack animations over and over and over and over...

Oh... and yeah, 2h weapons were a beast in the previous game so I epect no less in this one ^^ But numbers are irrevelant, it's more of an overall feeling...

Last edited by keln; 01/10/17 10:08 AM.
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keln Offline OP
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After more game time, I'm now pretty sure of it... A character with a little 21 int deals 1.7k AOE with a 2source point necro skill, while the 3 source points rogue source skill dealt 1.8k crit on a single target with 40 finesse...

Let's count the benefits:
Force: 1 schools ~~ 13 skills (welp)
Finesse: 2 schools ~~ 26 skills but 13 ranged and 13 rogue.

Polymorph? benefits everyone :p
Summoning?

Int: 5 schools ~~ 110 skills in total (most of the crafted skills require intelligence)

Let's just say that for the fun of it, mages have much more potential :p

Oh, and mages also benefit from the high grounds ^^'

Could actually bee interesting to have multiple fighting schools "the way of the sword/axe/mace/rapier" , the way of the up close ranger or the far away sniper

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I don't understand the point of this. You're actually claiming physical classes need reworked to become stronger?

AoE barely matters at all in this game unless you manipulate the enemies with Teleport. Most encounters have enemies all spread out and typically the most you'll ever hit at the same time is two.

Rangers do by far the most damage in the game, and at range followed by Rogues and Warriors. Casters cannot compete at all, and it doesn't even require the best weapon upgrades at every level either. I have no idea what you're doing, but saying physical classes need a new weapon every level to "maybe" rival magic? It already eclipses magic by a factor of two minimum. What level are you using Mortal Blow at? Because mine does 8K on an enemy at full health...

Other than Slow, Teleport and Cripple, most spell effects are worthless until armor is stripped, and the way you strip armor is through damage. Spell damage is awful on single targets compared to physical classes and only rivals physical when you're hitting three or more enemies at the same time.

It also doesn't matter at all how many skills "INT" has total when the majority of them are useless until armor is stripped or simply redundant damage spells. It's also not quite accurate in saying that all you need to do is raise INT to use all schools the same. 10 in any given school does a lot more than 1. So sure, you could invest 1-2 in all schools and do mediocre damage with them all by relying soley on your INT for the damage increase, but you'll still be doing a lot less than you could be.

Also, unless the Enhanced Edition of the previous game massively reworked spell damage, again I have no idea what you're talking about. Master level spells would wipe out encounters before the enemy even had a turn. Literally every single fight in the game aside from the Void Dragon.

Last edited by Sanctuary; 02/10/17 01:35 AM.
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The game got dumbed down in many aspects, not even the fact that weapon type makes no difference now. It got far more casual in many things sadly.

Also they will hardly be anymore skill trees because they only added skill trees, that got elected during kickstarter campaign.


If you play Tactician weapon level is heavily important regarding level 15+ as far as I read. In Classic not so much.

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keln Offline OP
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Sanctuary, I'm not advocating for more strength, I'm advocating for more choices and combinations... Combinations will lead to strengh by themselves.

The 8k mortal blow heavily depends on your weapon (and thus your level)... the 1.8k was at level 16...

And I highly disagree with "most of int spells beeing useless", they all offer so many tactical options compared to let's say, a whirlwind or a sawtooth strike...




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