Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Suggestions and Feedback I feel cheated by the final fight [Spoilers]

When Braccus Rex calls up those who were sworn to the Void King, I felt really cheated.

When I killed his allies and deliberatly sucked away their souls, a terribly evil act. But I knew if I did not, they would later show up in a bad situation.

Now, cue the fight against Braccus and all the mean people I killed and soul-killed are there. Without a comment.

Seriously: If you give the option to destroy someone's soul because they are so evil and need to get eliminated from the board, you need to take them off. Else do not allow the soul-sucking of X, Y and Z in the first place or at least explain why there are still around to fight me (as I just attempted to prevend by being really evil).

I agree, especially because the Kraken DOES have a second set of minions to summon in that fight that are generic Black Ring henchmen. Not to forget to mention that one of them is a far more interesting character than any of the big baddies; 'Undead Black Ring Flameweaver', who is actually just a completely normal dude and not undead at all but he just pretends he is. (I'm hoping for an Expansion pack or mini-campaign to explain what his deal is. Where did he come from? Why does he use illusory magic to make it seem like he's undead? Is his relationship to the Kraken professional or intimate?)
Considering that destroying souls is a pretty large ethical and mechanical consideration in the game this seems like a polish thing that should be included one day.

You have a point there. Good thing this thought didn't come to my mind when this happened, so I didn't get bugged out by it. I suppose the hardcore tactician in me was too occupied by what kind of tactics am I going to use to beat this, so I didn't pay attention to whether it made sense or not.

But hey, you can still try and come up with some sort of far-fetched explanation for it. Like, maybe the bad guys found a way to "recreate" those guys in the image of their original form, or something along that line... Somehow they managed to "clone" the sworn guys, and kept them in some sort of freezer in the Kraken's stomach... After all, it's a magical world you live in. Anything can happen, right?

If you speak to/attempt to drain Windego, she'll explain the fact that the God King already has their soul/source.
You're still free to yank what they have out of their body, though.

Permanency and Reactivity are pretty wishy-washy throughout the game, though, so I'm not surprised this is the first conclusion a lot of people have.

As I understand GK owns them... I wished to free Wendigo of him, but in the end story she is captive in all moments except if you'll make sacrifice.
Also I wonder is it intentionally done that Kraken spawns once again after it's killed?
I've killed Kraken away from all other enemies and it respawned second time and reseted combat sequence - resummoned all dead sworn characters... still not a big deal, but feels wrong.
Have you tried to hit Kraken with Battle Stomp? I got blank screen with background picture and nothing happens, no info in battle log...

After playing this part another time, I realized the fight does cheat you in another way: when the second phase of the fight is triggered by Braccus, a bunch of on-going effects on your side will be cut short. My Lohse was having Time Warp active, then she made only one move before the second phase is triggered, and guess what, she lost the remaining of that turn, and the entire extra turn as well. Which is about 9 APs worth. And considering every action of mine costs only 1 AP... Not only that, but spells like Ethereal Storm or Thunderstorm will also be stopped. AND, a very special summon related to the Red Prince is simply removed from the fight, even though he/she is standing right there.

The entire transition of that fight seems a tad odd. You're entering the fight and basically a whole lot of random stuff happens, which leads to most players having to reload and redo it with the knowledge of what is going to happen when.

This is basically the only fight in the game where that happens, all others, even if you are on a wrong foot, are to be fought "as it comes" and that is very interesting. Having a fight at the end that you try once or twice and then re-do it to fluently run it seems like not-ideal-design to me.

And back to the topic I wrote first about: The game is rewarding me for digging around, finding all those stories related to sworn guys of the Void King, I take them out, I deliberatly suck out their soul. That they then do show up is both a cheat regarding what happens in-universe as well as from a game-design perspective of roleplaying games as it "takes away" some advantage I did achieve in the game by doing the footwork (which the game relies on very heavily during its run).

My understanding is that consuming one's soul condemns them to the Void directly. So consuming them is what gave Braccus the ability to call them from the Void.

I am not 100% positive, but judging from the dialogue and the various books throughout my playthroughs, as well as the specific characters that were resurrected by Braccus in my playthrough (b/c some of those whose souls I consumed were not loyal to the God King in life), I think what happens is actually opposite of what you expected (and admittedly, me too). It was quite some time before I realized that consuming a soul sentenced them to the Void, but that is a direct line from dialogue somewhere (now I really wish I could remember which dialogue, so sorry). There are some characters who are sworn to the God King in life, so it stands to reason they would rise again at Braccus's command, and we knew from our first encounter with Voidsworn that their oath persists beyond death.

On the contrary, take for example the soul jars found in Act I. Smashing the jars sets the soul free, not to the Void. Consuming the soul in the jar sentences them to the Void. Leaving them as-is in the jar keeps them eternally bound between the world of the living and the Void.

If I've messed something up here, *please* correct me. I'm basing this all on my understanding from dialogue and text in my own playthroughs.

This is directly contradicted by Wendigo, who wants to get sucked up to escape the Void King, and the same is reflected by countless Black Ring members who seriously scream - and then vanish - if they are consumed.

IF it actually works differently then the entire run of the game gives us a wrong impression. And this means: It might be intact regarding the lore, but it would be horrible game design. The same is true, in fact, if you have such a massive feature built into the game that plays a central role - but you neither can be bothered to tell the player nor make it an actual point in the plot that plays a somewhat transparent role. In all cases this is solved badly.

But the more I think about it, the more I very seriously dislike the entire big fight. It just behaves so different from the rest of the game and, to me, isn't fun at all but just a tactical puzzle - one that behaves different, in a bad way, from what I played in the 100 hours before.

I do really like the game and it is awesome, but this final fight isn't good.

But the core here stands: Given this is such a central aspect of the game I do think that we need to bend whatever moresel we find in the game shows the game does have a problem here. Both regarding lore as well as game design.

Hmm... yeah, I see your point. I thought Windego wanted to break her swear to the GK via the Swornbreaker. I don't recall her stating she wants to be consumed to escape him.

After the final fight, should the player choose to ascend to Divinity, Windego comments that she is now hopelessly stuck with the GK and destined for an eternity of torment and agony until such a time that a new Godwoken arises to take the player's place, and to the seal the breach between the Void and the world of life for good.

I must be missing something as it doesn't add up to me anymore. Windego is, at the time of freeing her from the magical cell, still living and thus sworn to the GK prior to death, right? Perhaps being dead and then consumed is what sends them to the void. All I know for sure, I guess, is that dialogue with a spirit (iirc in the graveyard in Act II) the option to consume their source states, "Consume the spirit's source, banishing it to the Void."

Not really sure what to think now? I suspect that it is because she is still living that is the key. Perhaps being alive and sworn is only possible because of the breach between the Void and the living world. If so, then choosing to sacrifice Source and close the breach would free those who are living and sworn. It seems logical to me that consuming the souls of the dead would cause them to scream and panic if they are in fact being banished to the Void.

I'm currently under the impression that the souls of those who die feed the barrier of Source between the Void and the living. I really might be misinterpreting the dialogue here too, so if I'm not correct then I apologize.

After watching all endings I must say... I am confused.

The game surely communitcates something different in various dialogues than later. Ok, maybe the dialogue reflects what each character is thinking, but... this is still a bit messy and as player I have no real idea where I stand.

All the stuff at the end pretty much reflects that the "soul" that you suck up is not what is tied to the Void King. But that creates new questions:

You have a body.
You have a source-soul that goes to the Hall of Echoes after death, unless someone has absorbed it.
You have another... hum... soul (?) that is tied to the Void King if you joined the Covenant?

Uuh, what? Ok, let us assume you only have a body and a soul, but if someone absorbs the soul you are denied the Hall of Echoes, but are sent to the Void instead. But you still stay completely intact (personality, memory), so there's actually no real destruction of the soul in the first place. Then this distinction makes little sense and it really makes no sense that it is presented as "crime" to suck souls, as they are basically staying intact anyway. And for those "Black Ring" guys I destroyed it makes no difference alltogether as they were sworn to the Void anyway and now go there anyway? I am utterly confused - in a bad way.

While it might be there's some solid lore behind this, I rather think it is a rather massive screwup in the writing.