Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General First Beyond Divinity review @ C&VG?

I've just posted the first Beyond Divinity review that RPGDot has tracked (in English, too) with a score of 71%. It's a bit confusing because the heading is 'Divine Divinity' but the text refers to DivDiv in past tense and quickly moves onto BD. In addition, C&VG posted their DivDiv review in 2002 (written by Rhianna Pratchett) with a score of 85%.

It's too short, lacks detail and structure but is generally more positive than the score would suggest. Combat and graphics are really the only things criticised - of course I don't know what state of code they reviewed. You may need to register to read the article.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> thanks for that...
this screenshot looks interesting, vortalpic

... and they list the publisher as CDV... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the link, 'cause going in the front door means registering, and it ain't worth it! (I know that because I fell for it on a previous item) However, on the front page the review does get display space... as "Divine Divinity" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />... CVG's PCZone

Look at the title of the review too: Divine Divinity, even though it is Beyond Divinity they are reviewing. Amateurish <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />

I don't trust any reviewer until the game is released, or almost released, because obviously they didn't get a chance to test the REAL game, with new voices and bugfixes and everything. Also, I don't trust a reviewer that didn't finish the game completely. BTW, I'm talking about the English version.

I think I'll wait for websites like IGN, Gamespot, and magazines such as PC Gameplay (the best gaming mag).

I was surprised at the score; it really didn't reflect the tone of the review which was very positive. I'll wait for the RPGDot review!! Who knows, maybe I'll offer to write it!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I'll drop the C&VG guys a line and let them know to change it. I didn't know it had gone up online, as the review is in the current issue of the magazine. I don't honestly know how much Richie played of the game (obviously I couldn't review it) but I was kinda expecting a score of low to mid 70s, but admittedly the review does seem to read a little better than the score. However, score wise in Zone BD beat Lionheart, Sacred and Nightshift, so that's pretty good going (although I think Sacred was underscored at 65%). At the time Zone got the code for BD I believe, it was considered to be finished and subsequently for a number of reasons Larian made the wise decision to hold back the game and tweak it some more, by which time the review had gone to print anyway, so there was little that could be done in that respect. It's certainly going to be interesting to see how the other UK PC mags (Gamer and Format) score BD when their reviews come out, as both of them gave the original DivDiv scores in the 50s/low 60s as I recall.

It may interest you to know that many games are not completed when the reviews are written, at least in my experience of UK games mags. This obviously depends on a number of factors: the game in question of course...it's much easier to finish Max Payne quickly than Baldur's Gate II, how familiar the reviewer is with the game in the first place (have they place preview code previously? Are they an expert at evaluating games in that genre? etc) the space they've got to fill in the magazine, a 6 page review will probably demand more time than a 1/4 page one, the state of the code itself, the gaming platform and of course the time a reviewer is given to actually play the game and turn in their copy, which is much less than you might imagine.

Personally, I don't think it's at all necessary for a reviewer to finish a game before they review it and certainly not practical when working to tight deadlines. With a book, film or DVD you might conceivably sit through the whole of it to see it the end makes the over all experience any better. But with a game you can get usually get a good feel for it after a certain length of time depending on reviewer/game etc certainly if you're an experienced reviewer. It a game hasn't hooked a player in...whether their a reviewer or not they're unlikely to spend the time working at it to see if it gets any better 20 hours or so down the line. they have been games I've finished before I wrote the review such as Freedom Force, but I certainly didn't have time to finish all 200ish hours of DivDiv when I reviewed it. It may not be ideal, but that's how things tend to work.

Rhi

Darn work ethics <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Personally I never really pay much attention to magazine reviews - tbh I don't really trust them (no offence intended <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )...

I tend to wait for player reviews and then just pay attention to the negative or neutral ones (as the positives are usually written by big fans of the dev studio and would praise any piece of software they put out regardless of quality). The negative reviews tend to exagerate every little flaw but they give you a good idea of what the problems are and the neutrals tend to be fairly balanced in their opinions.

Still, having said that there are many games I buy on the day of release based on previous experience and Beyond Divinity will be one of them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

While I agree that magazine reviewers do not necessarily have to complete a game (and I appreciate that most would not have the time anyway) to get a good feel for the game, it can often be the case that the best content is front loaded and the later parts of a game can seem rushed (perhaps for this very reason). Neverwinter Nights springs to mind as one of these (including the expansions) where Acts 1 & 2 where fairly long and involved and then the later acts where very linear and tended to be very short (though generally the writing was better in the later acts).

I shall be taking my advice a little more seriously myself in future though after having been burnt on both the PC versions of Halo and Deus Ex: Invisible War - the latter being a complete travesty of a game when compared to the original.

I don't know theire are a couple reviewers out theire that are fair. (thinks of el shrimpo)

But a reviewer simply has to finish a game. What if there's some kind of secret at the end? I take for example Castlevania: Symphony of the night, which after you finished it to 100%, you could unlock a whole new castle, and double the gameplay and storyline etc... and finish the game to 200%.

Or maybe the ending is unsatisfactionary. Or maybe the game is absolutely great the first 10 hours, but then it becomes repetitive and boring. The reviewer won't know what he/she is talking about then.

I mean, if it's your job to play the latest and best games all day long and eh...

um...

...erm

...uh

(Note to self: Apply for a job in a gaming magazine)

It's hard to argue with someone who is a professional games journalist but this is exactly why I don't bother with print media anymore. I completely disagree that you can judge a game adequately "after a certain length of time" - it may be a practical necessity but it isn't desirable and it isn't accurate in my opinion for a number of games.

yes ....take for example the "Castlevania thingy" mentioned above...(what a great idea, BTW)
but on the other hand we would have to wait forever to read an accurate review if one needed
to finish a game before writing a review for it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

....
Especially if it was me doing the playing..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

When I first got DD I thought it was a diablo clone because of the catacombs, but after that I quickly changed my mind and fell in love. You can tell alot of "professional" reviewers never played it past the catacombs and branded it a diablo clone.

Yes, that's one of the mistakes Larian should've learned from. Instead, I fear, that most people will decide uupon the game only considering the Demo area (like in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> ) .

An ‘accurate’ review is a bit of a misnomer since review are very subjective anyway, therefore what exactly constitutes an accurate review is hard to judge. Someone could play the game for a few hours and come up with a similar opinion to someone who’d played a game for a lot longer. Equally two people could play the game, complete it and come up with completely different opinions.
I agree that knowing that the person playing the game all the way through would certainly be reassuring, but it’s just not practically as far as print copy goes. Of course some reviewers are more professional than others, and dedicate more of their time to a game.
However, I wouldn’t dismiss print mags out of hand, what you are buying into is a lot of experience in the reviewer, which can be very valuable. I’m not sure how it works in other countries but certainly in the UK the writers lend a lot of personality and character to the magazine (although sadly not quite as much as they used to). It’s very easy to ‘get-to-know’ your reviewer, understand the direction they’re coming from, the genres they are experts in and more importantly how often their opinion falls in line with yours.

It was reviewed in PC gamer mag and it got 78% (I think)!

It's a UK mag so I'd assume they reviewed the English version of the game...but the English version is still being tweaked?!!? Can't imagine they only reviewed the demo...I'll have to read it again and see if there's anything of note in the review.

I got the demo with the mag and hated it at first, I like it now just as long as that horrible stutter problem is fixed when you meet a new character model or change your appearance in the character selection screen.

Got a good write up but they didn't like the graphics, and appearently there was some sort of zoom in function they talked about in the review that you can use to zoom into the screen, but it makes a mess of the graphics! I didn't hear anything about that before.


I'll be buying this after about 2 weeks from when it comes out IF there are no major problems and that stutter issue is long dead! Otherwise....well...I don't want to think of the alternatives....Scared?!?! Nah.....

Hm, I'd like to hear how different actually the ways of revieweing games in different countries are ... here in Germany I have the feeling as if "graphical blenders" nearly automatically receive highest points.

As far as I know it hasn't been reviewed in PC Gamer UK magazine (If you know for sure it has then please let me know) only PC Zone with a score of 71% and it sounds like you're talking about PCZ's review. PCZ Did review from what was considered to be finished code, but in the time the review went to press (that is usually several weeks before the mag is actually in the shops) the decision was made by Larian to hold back the code and tweak it.

I do think that the games press differs from country to country. I think the UK is quite a hard marker in general.

Again, your experience lends weight to your arguments but I still disagree. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> Of course, a review is *always* subjective by definition but if the reviewer has not finished the game they can not attest to the balance, challenge or quality past the point played and for some games this is an important issue - Im happy to call that "accuracy". However, I accept it may not be possible to finish games in practice for commercial reasons.

In addition to these practices, print mags have serious problems with lead time and space allocation. I don't mean to personalise this but the BD review at CVG is an excellent example. Leaving aside the naming error and dubious value of the introductory paragraph, it's really too short to be of much value. What does it tell me about the gameplay? From my brief time with the BD demo, the introduction of the Death Knight makes quite a big impact on gameplay - this review barely mentions it in passing. In all fairness, I'm sure it has little to do with the author (apart from that first paragraph) and everthing to do with deadlines and space. Nevertheless, the result is a glib article based on unfinished code that tells me absolutely squat about the gameplay.

I can build the same trust in quality online sites. I haven't bought a gaming mag in two or three years and I don't see that changing.