Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General A Definitive Disappointment

First off, let me give some background. I am on a fixed income, and keeping up with bills is hard enough on it's own. Inevitably, I'll get at least one comment telling me to just get a PC while the fixed income statement will be ignored. Secondly, I really like what I've seen from Larian in terms of both their games, and business practices. That being said, Divinity Original Sin 2 is a huge disappointment to me & my rpg group. We were super excited about the game master mode, and the ability to tell our own stories using the mode. I hyped it up & got the rest of my group to agree to buy the game too. It would've been a feature that could have really changed how console tabletop rpg gaming has been treated. I don't feel like I should be forced to buy a PC (which i couldn'teven afford anyway) to enjoy what the FULL game has to offer. The Game Master Mode was a big selling point for my group, but without it's inclusion, the amount of excitement we previously had for the game is seriously diminished My group is all console gamers, and that's what we enjoy, and can afford. If you're going to remove an important feature, such as an entire game mode, shouldn't that be reflected in the price? If it isn't, then what does that say about value? It is less value for the console player, but costs the same price. Really, we just wanted the full game, and it's hard to put into words how disappointing it is to pay the same price as your PC customers and not receive the full game. If the Game Master Mode is included at some point, we'll probably pick it up. Since that doesn't seem likely, we'll just pass on by and hope you show just as much consideration for your console fans in the future as you show your pc fans currently.

The problem is the controller.

Controllers are good for many games, but they're not very precise. I believe Larian found that the GM mode was simply too menu-dependent to be usable with a controller, at least not without bogging the game down.

There are many games released for consoles that are never released for the PC (and vice-versa), but I could care less about that as I'll never buy a console...;) Ugh. But that has simply been my own preference--just as you have your preferences, etc. OTOH, there has never been a better time to buy a PC--they've never been so inexpensive *and* so powerful at the same time. One must accept the limitations that go along with one's decisions, right? That's life. Your post kind of reminds me of posts that I see concerning Linux support, as the people who install a Linux distro at the expense of any other OS are always asking why the gaming industry doesn't stop dead in its tracks and start supporting Linux instead of Windows--simply because *they* decided to install Linux one day...;) It doesn't work that way and probably never will.

It isn't a matter of "consideration"...;) You cannot pay your employees and they cannot in turn feed their families with "consideration". Should it ever become a viable economic proposition, however, I'm sure that Larian will do what you'd like to see soonest.

Stabbey - I just don't buy that argument, especially with the possibilities of radial, or drop-down menus.

Waltc - Like I said initially, I am on a fixed income & can't afford a pc. I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to say just get a pc. It's almost laughable how quickly too. You're pc bias doesn't even allow you to entertain my grievance or point of view, and instead you just dismiss it out of hand. As to your "example", it's just a straw man for your own argument. Larian didn't say they were releasing on Linux with the exception of a core game mode & if they did, people would justifiably have complaints.

Also, the argument that you can't pay people with "consideration" is monumentally weak when console players will be charged for a full game, but will not receive it. Not once did I say anything even close to employees shouldn't be compensated for their work, and for you to insinuate as much shows how weak, biased, and unthought out your stance really is.

That's not what he said.

Furthermore, it's your loss for ignoring a great game that you claim you own. I don't know how big your group is, but a 4 player coop in this game is awesome and allows for just about everything a GM could provide.

Yes, that is what he said when talking about how there's never been a better time to buy a pc. As for loss, I see it as more of a loss for Larian. I'm arguing for inclusivity, but you are arguing for exclusivity. The more people who could experience the full game, the better. This isn't me saying i hate larian, or they make bad games, or anything like that. My point is that there are a significant number of console gamers who are being sold a product that is not complete, yet have to spend the same amount of money as if it were. There are many of us who were really looking forward to Game Master Mode, and are quite disappointed that it isn't there for one, and we're expected to pay the same price regardless.

Larian never said the console versions of the game would have the GM mode, so they sold you, as you claim, exactly what they said they would, the complete game as advertised.
Like Waltc already said, you made a choice and all choices have consequences.

You might want do a bit of research next time before you buy a game.
You could have known there would be no GM mode for consoles a long time ago.

So is your position is that Larian could easily have made a good GM mode on a console, they just deliberately chose not to. Do you believe that it's not a case of Larian trying to get GM mode on and finding it unworkable, they merely didn't try at all?

They didn't sell me anything, I didn't make a purchase. So, I never claimed they sold me anything & your argument that I made such claims is foolish. You go right back to the same tired argument that choices have consequences, which shows that you put just as much thought into this as Waltc, which is obviously not much. As for your assumption that I didn't do any research, you're way off the mark, but you just state it as if it were a fact. I've kept up with the news about it, which is why I did not purchase it. You would probably understand that if you actually read my initial post & took the time to think about it before chiming in with your incorrect assertions.

If you didn't purchase it, why argue about it? It seems like it doesn't affect you at all then.

If what you claim is true then perhaps, in all your wisdom, you should have made your post a long time ago when, in theory, you could have had a chance that the GM mode would make it to consoles if potential customers would have made their voice heard strong enough.
Instead you come here after launch to complain about you not being able to buy a PC and wanting a price reduction for a game you are not interested in because it doesn't have a feature you want.

Doesn't make sense to me.

I find that games and companies that take chunks out of thier games and products and still expect us to pay full price for it is not only wrong but its a horrible buisness practice. If you charge 60 dollars for a game on PC, then turn around and charge the same price for a game without a mode in it then you have to take the price down or your bassically stealing from the consumer.

So you think the extra work that needs to be done to bring a game to another platform besides the main platform the game was developed for should be done unpaid?
Using your logic I'd say that would be stealing from the developer.

Ethic issue aside, in Larian's Kickstarter Update 47 - Let's talk Definitive Edition!, they stated that:

"[...] the one thing we didn't manage to port to console is the Game Master mode. [...] The number of menus present in Game Master mode and the speed with which a GM needs to be react to the antics of a party made it impossible to make a port that would be fun to play with"

This would pop up if you put "original sin 2 game master ps4" in Google. Not to criticize you, but if I were really hyped about some particular feature of a game (or about anything, pretty much), I would look it up on Google first, and see how it works. Especially since I'd hate to throw away money for nothing, as far as buying stuff is concerned. Or if I feel like I'm betting my money on something.

When they said "impossible", they probably really meant it.

Hey, I know damn well the choices I make have consequences. First and foremost having to wait longer for either official or unofficial support. I consider it worth the cost, but I'm always even more happy than ever when we can persuade devs to support Linux in addition to Windows. For one thing, the more that happens, the less dominance Microsoft can exert on game devs and gamers, which seems like a good thing to me.

All that is to say, please don't lump me into that category. Sometimes we just have to take our disappointing lumps, and this sounds like such a case. When Larian says they couldn't make it work at all, they no doubt meant it. Unfortunate, but reality remains real.

Still disappointed over the lack of GM mode on consoles. I've been playing with my group for awhile now & we all feel the same way. The game itself is one of the best isometric RPGs that I've played. This doesn't make it immune from criticism though. I still see posts from console users regularly lamenting the lack of this mode. Especially considering we have keyboard & mouse support. It's great that they're putting out new campaigns for GM mode, but the fact that we can't enjoy those experiences as well is extremely disappointing. Every time I see a new update come through, I'm hopeful but I don't think that consoles are any kind of priority. Just another revenue stream.

I think it is a point worth mentioning and then considering on Larian's side. My guess in practice is you wouldn't have liked it anyway, but that isn't the main point, but would probably be the bottom line. I wonder what the abandonment rate is for finishing the standard game in coop? 95%? I wonder how many have really used the GM mode successfully and to the point they do it with any regularity? <1%?

But I can asure you that those that do, do so rather fanatically and with great pleasure, especially now story scripting has been opened up for GM mode and quite a few mods have been released that enhance the mode greatly!

Good to know. Thanks.