Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Help/Tips/Tricks Question: Crit and dual whield

hi,

i am new in this game. I tested serveral builds to find out which one i like to play. Do did this with the cheat commander-Mod. I know, cheating etc.. but i use it only to unterstand the mechanics and see how a class will work later in the game. I know, i am very particular, but i am not happy with a class when it not corrospend to my imagined playstile. And so i always in every game i am playing i do so.

English is not my motherlanguage. I know my vocablurary is not the best and i am using wrong syntax.

And here i get some questions:

I have two identical builds. One with 2 axes, one with a 2h axe. The points in DW or 2h are the same. Both weaponslots have the same damage (+/-2%). Critchance 100%.

When i hit with the 2handed weapon i make 60-70k physics damage as crit.
When i attack with DW i make 2x11k hit and 1x26k hit, sometimes the 3rd attack is 11k too. And i do not unterstand why. The same characterdamage, the same attack. So the three attacks should make together 60k-70k too. But they do rarely the half of this. Why is this so?

I tested it with the weaponability and normal attacks. Always the same.
It seems so, that the crit does only affect one hit, and abilities with more hits only the last attack crits or not. I think so because in the combatlog only one crit is shown, but the ability hits 3 times. With 100% crit there should be 3 crits.

If it is really like that, this means, that 2h is immense stronger than DW and DW is as strong as sword and shield (because of the immense damage of the shield-throw and reactive armor). DW has only the dodge-ability.

But maybe you can help me and explain the results.

Thanks for your help.

nordstern

I'm not very far in the DE so can't really do much testing, and I don't fully see how different it is from Classic Edition yet.

What I don't get is how come you're making 3 attacks when basic attacking with two weapons?

The Two-Handed ability also increases the critical damage you do with two-handed weapons. So when it's about *critical* damage, two-handed should do the most damage in one attack, as it should. That's the point of using a two-handed weapon. You're using only one weapon, so you forgo the defenses from a shield, and you also miss one entire set of bonuses that would come with a second weapon in the offhand.

Also keep in mind that when dual wielding your offhand weapon suffers -50% damage.


The Dodging bonus from Dual Wielding is very useful on certain builds, AFAIK. Another advantage of dual wielding is to trigger on-hit effects. Both weapons can have on-hit effects that can be applied in one attack. Or when you're using Sparking Swings or Venom Coating, you trigger the effect twice when attacking with two weapons.

As Try2Handing mentioned, I think dual wielding only differentiates itself from two handed weapons when using on hit effects like 10% blind or elemental damage etc, or as two daggers to use scoundrel talents. In a straight damage race with a warfare build - identical damage/crits I think two handed is always more damage.

Two weapons does give you another slot for runes/stats on the item, I guess it's just up to you to decide if that's important.

My personal opinion is unless you want to try some fringe build like sparking strikes or an INT based hybrid with weapons that do elemental damage, dual wielding is for Scoundrels. They do comparable damage to 2 handed warriors and also have the luxury of movement skills and the ability to switch damage types with Terrifying Cruelty/Chloroform/Gag Order and attack physical or magic armor - whichever your party needs or is weaker.

And your english is perfect, don't worry.

I know the bonus of twohanded weapons an critdamage. But this is maxium arround 110%. DW has 250%, 2h has 360% in the test. 100% damage are arround 15k damage. But not 35k.

But if all 3 attacks are criting and they all do 21k damage, the DW does 63k damage and this is weaker than 2h but it is in the tolerance because of the critdamage (2h up to 76k damage).

I mean 3 attacks and 2 attacks: if you attack with the DW-Weaponability (you get after equipping two weapons) your char makes 3 weaponswings, with a normal attack 2 weaponswings.

My testchar made with 360% critdamage, 17k Characterdamage around 70-80k/hit with mouseclick.
The same gear (without bonuses in DW or 2h) with 250% critdamage, 17k Damage does only around 30k damage (1st swing 10k, 2nd swing 21k-crit)
When i use the 3point-attack i have seen in the log: 1st attack 10k, 2nd attack 10k, 3rd attack crit 26k. But i have over 100% critchance (132%). So why do the frist attacks not crit?

I think this are not the resistances. Because the logs shows that the frist attacks are no crits, only the last is a crit. And the restances are in %. x% from 70k is the same value as x% from twice/three 35k/23k. This is only relevant when the resistances are a fix value and not %.
example:
25% from 100k is 25k -> 75k damage left
25% from 50k is 12,5k -> 37,5k left
25% from 50k is 12,5k -> 37,5k left
37,5k+37,5k=75k from the 100k hit.


My plan was it to play a meeleclass with maximum movement (teleport from huntsmen and Scoundrels, jump and charge from warfare) and physical damage. But i was not sure which weapon: 2h or DW. But if i have 40% less damage for 20% dodge.. i choose the damage. But i like the DW-Style more.

DW with Scoundrels is not my gameplay. I have to play with daggers and as stealth-assassine. Thats not mine. I am a brutal warrior. And i will play as lone warrior with an archer/ranger as 2nd char.

I don't know why Flurry does not crit every hit in your tests. I tested it with dual daggers and backstab and it crits every hit.

Flurry: 26 + 24 + 24 = 74 damage
Basic attack: 49 + 29 = 78 damage

Apparently it's actually weaker than one basic attack while costing more AP.

If your character does not crit every hit with Flurry, maybe that's just how it works when you're not backstabbing.

From what I've seen, the base damage of two-handed weapons tend to be 1.5 or 1.6 times that of the one-handed variations of the same level. But when you're dual wielding, your offhand suffers -50% damage. So by a rough calculation, this means you should do about the same damage in one basic attack (2 AP) when you're NOT critical hitting. If you critical hit and have points in Two-Handed style, the two-handed weapon should yield more damage due to bonus critical damage.

Just a quick aside, backstabs are by nature always critical attacks. I'm not sure if you mis-typed or not here.

The third hit of flurry not causing a critical hit is strange, it's possible it's just not programmed as a normal physical attack, or its damage is rolled into the three attacks and only two critical hits show visually. Someone who can look at the code on pc could answer this, I'm just a console player.

I suspect it's an oversight because onslaught and daggers drawn both can crit on every hit. (I've seen daggers drawn crit while attacking from the front)

Try it with no daggers and do not attack from behind.

Is a developer here who can explain why with DW no Dagger only the last hit crits and the other 1-2 not with a critrate from 132%?

Ok, i have tested. The issue is not so simple.

The logs says that all attacks are crits. But some crits do normal critdamage and other crits normal hitdamage. In every sequence of attacks with DW only one attack deals critdamage, the other lesser damage no matter they crit or not.

Example:
Each weapon deals 10-11 damage -> the first swingcrit makes 33 damage, the 2nd one 18 damage.
critdamage is 210%

10 to 11 x (1+2,1)= 31 to 34,1 damage... the 33 damage of the frist hit is ok.
But the following hits are clear weaker.
10-11 x (1+2,1) x Z = 18
Z = 0,53-0,58 -> the following hits are about 53-58% weaker. Maybe only half the critdamage is used.

So it seems to be no bug or something else, rather intended. But after which culculation?

call me a freak, but i found the calculation through testing and excel.
The calculation for the mainhand is as known from the 2h-weapon. All ok
(min-dmg+max-dmg)/2*(1+additives)*(1+multiplicatives)
and for crit
*(1+critdamage)

But the calculation from the 2nd-hand is a bit strange:
(min-dmg+max-dmg)/2*50%*(1+additives)*(1+multiplicatives)
the 50% comes from the 50% plenalty for offhands. This is normal.
and for crit
*(1+critdamage*50%)
And here is the difference. It seems so, that the critdamage-muliplier is also affected from the plenalty.

This this calculations i can simulate the same damage on an NPC with 2h and DW Weapons including the same resistances.

example:
2h:
Attack makes 54597 damage as crit. In calculations 58312 damage. The difference is 6,4%. This is the resistance.
DW:
mainhand: 24101 damage vs 22456 damage -> 6,8% difference
offhand: 12051 damage vs 11228 damage -> 6,8% difference

The question is only why with the 3 swing-attack he hits 2 times with the offhand and onetime with the mainhand. And why the plenalty from the offhand also affects the critdamage... Maybe balance.