Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Questions about DnD 5E

Hallo

I have never played PnP games, but I have played computer games based on DnD 2 (IE games), DnD3 (NWN1+2), Pathfinder Kingmaker and DSA (Realms of Arcadia, Drakensang). I did some reading about the basics of DnD5, but there are some things still unclear.

- Are alingnment restrictions gone?
None of the class descriptions talk about alignment. The text shows also no negative consequences for your actions, except when they talk about paladins breaking their oath. So can we have lawful barbariens, chaotic monks, evil clerics of a good god or evil paladins?
I really like the paladin concept from Pillars of Eternity. They are faithful warriors of any god or ideology. In DnD terms you could be a paladin of any god, as long as the god is willing to give a warrior some divine powers to fight for him/her. So a chaotic evil god gave an evil paladin unholy powers when the paladin made an oath to ruin good or lawful kingdoms and to kill and torture people who try to achieve good or lawful things.

- Does your hit chance improve as you level up?
In DnD2 your thaco improved, in DnD3 it was BAB. In DnD 5 I saw no hit chance increase except your profiency bonus improves over time and you gain stat points.
So a wizard and a fighter have the same hit chance if they have the same strengh and the same melee weapon they are profient with.

- Animal companions are gone forever?

- Is there any reason to take a fighter instead of a paladin?
Fighters get 4 attacks at level 20. Paladins get spells and lots of bonusses and resistences for themselves and the party, plus turn undead and empowering their attacks with divine power.
In DnD3 fighters got more feats than other classes and they had greater weapon specialisation and focus.

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I do not know how many party members you can have but if it is at least 4 I will stay with the usual stuff.
Unless they are complete junk I will use only origin characters in my party for story reasons.
- Half elf paladin with melee weapon+shield as tank (maybe the githyanki fighter if there is no paladin origin char)
- Cleric with weapon+shield for buffs, healing and as second tank. Dwarf or elf so I can use some martial weapons. Was the cleric companion an elf?
- A rogue or bard as skill monkey. Somebody needs to do all those locks and traps. The vampire rogue was nice.
- A wizard or sorcerer. If nothing has changed they are gods at higher levels who destroy everything by just looking at it. The human wizard companion seemed excentric enough.

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personal opinion:

I am happy that Larians new game uses the DnD rules because:

- I dislike the inflating numbers in D:OS2. At the beginning you do some points of damage later hundrets and then thousands. DnD should help to keep the numbers low.

- I dislike random equipment with random bonusses. I also dislike that equipment has a level and that stuff from 1 level higher was always better than the old stuff. I also dislike that shops get new stuff all the time. This forces you to run back to town every time you level up.
BG1 was the opposite of this. It felt great and importent when you found your first magic weapon or when you could finally afford your first plate armor. BG2 was nice but ToB was too epic for my taste. If you find an epic item around every corner, it does not feel importent anymore.
I hope it takes some time until you have a magic item in every equipment slot.

- The character developement of D:OS2 was very simple: Just maximize your main stat and maximize the skills of your preferred fighting style.

- I think it will be hard to prevent players from resting after every combat. I do not think the main quest and most sidequests will have a time limit. In most modern games you recover fully after combat (D:OS2, PoE2). I think Pathfinder Kingmaker had the best approach. You need space and supplies to make a camp and supplies are heavy.

I'll just write out the answers as I read through it to not make a quote wall (I made that mistake in the ragin' debate earlier)

While there are no direct limitations (yes, you can be an evil cleric/paladin) you should discuss it with your DM to make it work - if you're going to be an evil cleric to a good god (or a good cleric to an evil god) you can expect the god to stop giving you powers each morning - which might lead to interesting stories of where else you can gain power and at what cost.

Leveling up increases your chance to hit through proficiency bonus (+2 for lvl 1-4, +3 for lvl 5-8, +4 for 9-12, +5 for 13-16 and +6 for 17-20). Prof. bonus affects your chance to hit with weapons you're proficient with, spell to hit modifier and spell save DC (directly, so it's +1 to hit every 4 levels).
Yes, the wizard and fighter have the same chance to hit with a weapon if they are both proficient in using it. The thing is, the wizard is much better off casting a cantrip since it will scale with his level while a fighter can do several attacks as part of his attack action as he levels up.

I think rangers have some fighting companion type of thing and pretty much everyone can have a pet animals.

Fighters get more API (ability point improvements) compared to all other classes. These can be used to give +2 to stats (any way you see fit) or take a feat (which are quite strong most of the time).


Unfortunately most people will say that stocking up on supplies needed to camp outside is "not fun" and thus I don't think that's a good solution. I'd much rather see story driven reasons why you shouldn't rest all the time though I feel like you'll end up just like BG 1&2... long rest, long rest, long rest... hey, at least the nostalgia folks will be happy, right?

Alignment in the 5th D&D edition is about reminding yourself the basic moral compass of your character and how he is expected to act in daily life. WotC wanted alignment to be less of a restrictive rule and more of a role-playing guideline. Which is why you can have a Lawful Neutral barbarian if you like - which in 5th Edition would translate to a barbarian who is say, quick to believe and follow the chieftain of the tribe and not be in any hurry to save or condemn other tribe members when left in his own devices.

Where alignment plays a crystal clear purpose in gameplay is in spells like detect evil (which will locate creatures like fiends and evil dragons).

Rangers have animal companions and wizards have familiars.

In 5th edition, all classes automatically become prestige classes after a while. Fighters must choose Martial Archetype which either makes them a spellcasting fighter, a fighter who performs dozens of combat maneuvers or a fighter who gets numerous buffs on his standard abilities. So, whichever class you take, you eventually get abilities no other class has (even your own once you take a different class 'path').

As for the usual 4-party member thing with D&D, I'm not an experienced DM myself, so I cannot really see how a party can survive without having at least one tank, one healer, one spellcaster and one heavy-damage dealer. For example, I think a Paladin can take the fighter's place, but is a poor substitute for a cleric with the life domain chosen as his prime focus.

While in the beginning a party with only melee-focused characters may seem more than enough, as the game gets harder, spellcasters become more and more necessary.

Thanks

- It looks like a bit easier to understand than the older versions, though I might change my opinion when I finally play it.

- I did not find stacking rules. I also did not see that an effect has a type.
In DnD3 each effect had a type and only effects from a different type stacked. So I had to look for each ability if it gives me a morale bonus, a luck bonus, an enhancement bonus and so on. So a belt of strengh and a spell to boost strengh did not stack, but they would stack with barbarian rage.
BG1+2 did not even allow me to equip items if they have an effect that does not stack, e.g. magic armor+ring of protection.

- quote: "While in the beginning a party with only melee-focused characters may seem more than enough, as the game gets harder, spellcasters become more and more necessary."
Yes, that why I want to use a warrior (fighter or paladin), a divine caster (cleric or druid), an arcane caster (wizard or sorc) and a rogue (maybe bard instead)

Edit: I also did not find types of defense. Do they not exist anymore?
In P:K you had to look at dodge AC, natural AC, armor AC and so on. I also did not find touch attack or flat footed to see which armor can be used for defense.

1. Alignment is for roleplay reasons only. There are no alignment specific prestige classes anymore, or any other restrictions whatsoever. When you hit level 3 of some class, you can pick an archetype, regardless of alignment or stats.
Some other restrictions are gone as well, no enemies are immune to sneak attacks anymore.
In case of Paladins, when you choose an order at level 3 you have to follow certain tenants. If you don't you lose your powers for some duration. This is in the PHB from 5e, though I don't know if this will be implemented.

2. It does through proficiency bonus that start at +2 and goes up every 5 levels up to +6 at level 20. You need to have proficiency with your weapons to get it though. Casters get the same bonus for target spells.

3. I think that a Ranger archetype gets an animal companion at level 3.

4. Paladins get only one extra attack, Fighters get up to 3. But Paladins can use divine smite to increase their damage in a way that completely removes the necessity for more attacks.
Fighters still get the most feats along with Rogues at 6, but they don't get weapon focus anymore.

I believe rules for defense were simplified in 5e because having a bunch of different rules which modify AC was confusing, and confusing bogs the game down. Now there's just AC - if your score with an attack roll (either ranged, melee or spell) plus modifiers meets or exceeds the target's AC, the attack hits and does damage. If the attack is less than AC, it does no damage.

You only have AC for target attacks. For each AoE there is a saving throw specified, but instead of one defense linked to each attribute, you use the attribute itself as a defense. For example, an area effect that requires a Dexterity saving throw will make your roll d20 + DEX modifier + proficiency bonus (if appliable, you might not have proficiency).
Some monsters also have resistance/vulnerability to types of damage, that means that if they are affected by such types the damage gets halved or doubled respectively

D&D 5e has moved away from Alignment for the sake of better role playing. Instead of asking "what would a chaotic neutral character do in this situation," it becomes "what would MY character do in this situation." It allows for more character growth and prevents you from putting your character in a box, so to speak. This is why you won't see any spells or abilities that base themselves in alignment.

As others have said, your hit chance does improve with levels via your main attack stat and proficiency bonus. So for example, a level 5 fighter and a level 5 wizard, both with 18 strength, have the same chance to hit with a quarterstaff. However, if a wizard did this, they would no doubt have sacrificed their intelligence score and their spell casting ability. Not only that, the fighter is proficient in more weapons/armor, and thus more versatile in terms of melee combat.

There are some subclasses that offer animal companions. The Beast Master Ranger, any wizard with a familiar, and Pack of the Chain Warlocks all come to mind.

As for the fighter vs paladin question, it comes down to what you want out of a front-liner. Paladins have high saving throws and access to spellcasting by virtue of their class, however, they don't get as many ability score increases or access to powerful feats. Paladins also don't have Second Wind (bonus action heal) or Action Surge (the ability to take another action on the same turn). So, a fighter with 4 attacks could effectively have 8 attacks if their Action Surge is up.

Fighters have some really good subclasses too. Eldritch Knights have some wizard spellcasting thrown in with their fighter abilities, Battle Masters have unique combat maneuvers to control the battlefield, etc.

The question is, which do you find more fun? That's the beauty of 5e...I can't think of a single class I would not have fun playing.

Thanks again

When I look at the developement of rules since DnD 3E it seems they wanted to make single class characters more useful. Pathfinder tried to give every class something useful up to level 20 and now DnD 5E gave each class subclasses, some of them are similar to former multi classes (e.g. eldritch knight = fighter/wizard).
Does it work?

I mean, do players use often single class chars or does the game still encourage some multi class madness?

I still remember some monsters from NWN2. some examples:
- my white knight: http://nwn2db.com/build/?180624 (Paladin/Cleric/Favoured Soul/Warpriest, very high saves, defense and some resistances, use persistent buffs in the morning and bash enemies all day long.
- Jaws of the Viper http://nwn2db.com/build/?14729 Somebody made a char with epic dual wielding, favoured enemy, epic divine might and all this stuff multiplied with weapon master while attacking from invisibility.
- I have forgotten the details but there was a report from a PnP character build contest and the winner was a montrosity of many different classes. I think I remember things like gargantuan size and 8 arms, but I am not 100% sure.

Well, I would say there are pros and cons to both, and some classes get more out of mulit-classing than others.

Take the Eldritch Knight vs the Fighter/Wizard for example. Multi-classing gets you a Wizard that has some fighter armor/proficiencies, but the Eldritch Knight gives you an ability called War Magic that lets you take an attack as a bonus action if you used a cantrip as your main action. This makes your Wizard and Fighter abilities more seamless imo.

There are other combos that are almost always superior to their single class counterparts. Take the Paladin/Warlock combo. Paladins can use spell slots to give their attacks an extra boost of divine energy. This is called Smite. Well, normally, a Paladin would need to long rest before spell slots come back...but Warlocks get a few spell slots back at short rest. So, a Paladin/Warlock would get more Smites per day than a normal Paladin ever would.

My very first 5e character was a Level 2 Warlock/ Level X Bard. With two levels of Warlock I got two spell slots that came back every short rest along with the ability to cast Disguise Self at will...And so many other classes benefit from small dips like this.

The best dip is Fighter 2 for that sweet action surge. Refills at short rest also.

Absolutely. The Warlock 2 or Fighter 2 dip is super powerful. If you are a caster, however, you have to decide if putting off higher level spells is worth the temporary dip. It's all about player agency, and I don't think there are any wrong answers.

>PaladinxWarlock
ah, the classic meme build next to polearm tunnelfighter

yeah multiclassing s definitly strong, but mostly for what i call "meme builds" and less for stuff like a traditional Gish