Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Checkpoint Based Experience

How would you feel about having some sort of checkpoint based experience system and not getting experience for kills?

The experience that players were gaining from kills was extremely small, something like 3 exp per goblin at level 3. Level 3-4 normally takes 2700 experience, or 900 goblins.

Seems like completing quests or reaching story checkpoints will account for a lot more experience than ensuring that you kill everything.

I want a system that does not necessarily penalize players for solving challenges without force and that can't be gamed (ie. by solving matter peacefully then returning to kill for double exp). Experience need not be rewarded in a single way; "checkpoint exp" could be given between chapters/acts (ie. successfully navigating the Underdark) or by finishing major story lines. Exp. for solving problems, be it through stealth, diplomacy or combat, enforces a sense of accomplishment though so would probably be best to keep.

I imagine that we get exp for killing enemies, solving puzzles, finding secret locations, exploring the map, passing skill checks/proficiencies/dialogue options where we can avoid combat, or deal with the obstacle in an unorthodox manner. Based on Larian's previous works and BG history.

I generaly prefer when games give XP for getting things done rather then kills (Deus Ex, Pillars of Eternity) - completing quest, exploration and such. Giving XP for individual feats (kill, disarming traps, succesful conversation rolls) teases the powergamer inside me. How much XP I get shouldn't be influenced by how I complete the task or get to the area, and I shouldn'y be encouraged to kill every enemy, open every door and disarm every trap if I have no need for it (outside XP gain). Trying to reward with XP multiple playstyles (like modern Deus Exes) only amplifies the problem. Still, there are players who hate not being numerically rewarded for the activities. Either way, it doesn't change my playings, but knowing there is a way to milk more XP annoys me.


Well, first of all this was a demo. We don't know if things like XP gain are tuned to be near final. For example, XP gain could have been tuned down as to not accidently trigger level up [speculating].

Even if 3 exp would be accurate, it is unknown if BG3 will follow the same lvl up thresholds.

I definitely give in to the power gamer inside me sometimes. There were a few instances in Divinity: Original Sin 2 where I completed a quest and then proceeded to kill someone involved to get slightly more experience. It does help if combat experience is limited, but if it means being 1 level higher at a certain point in the game, I’ll be tempted.

Is that a problem having 1 or 1/2 more level in a way or in another ?
I think it's not... But maybe we should have less experience solving some specific quests with violence because e.g it was something the one that hire you would like to avoid... Or maybe you should miss another quests if you kill a specific NPC that could have stayed alive.

There are many way to balance experience and it could be more satisfying for everyone than just with a limit on kill xp.
What about those that want to play a bad party that's note helping anyone but that want to rob and kill ?

I guess video games could offer many differents way of playing without an easy exagereted unjustified balance.

Did Larian state the leveling process will be experience or milestone?

According to the latest footage, it seems we will get XP from killing ennemies. So I would say default is experience.

When you have XP per kill but you do not have respawning enemies the game the game usually becomes a sort-of-milestone-kind-of game or Murderhobo paradise.

That said, I´m ok with no respawning enemies, I´m not a fan of grind-until-you-puke games.

Solving problems with sword , axe & fireballs has always been quite successful I find - why solve a puzzle by having to think when you can just crush all opposition to dust ..granted not so much crushing at levels 1- 5 ......

I play the original Deus Ex again and I still think that this game has the best exp system ever.

You get exp for solving quest objectives and exploring the environment.
You do not get exp for using skills or killing enemies.

For example you get exp when entering a secret room.
It does not matter how you get there. Did you beat an enemy to get his key, did you pick the lock, did you hack the security computer or did you blow up the door?
The reward is the same as long as you manage to get into the room somehow.
This creates freedom for the player to solve the situation however you like.

Games that give exp for killing enemies encourage players to kill everything even if it makes no sense, like when you already sneaked past them or you convinced them to let you pass.
Even without exp, killing enemies can still have the advantage to get items, either because they have them or they guard the area.
Its your choice if you want to kill a bandit for a rusty dagger if you are already overloaded with gold bars.

Deus Ex was also good in term of reactivity.
NPC reacted different depending on you shooting everyone or you reached your goal without killing anyone. It feels good, even if it does not impact the reward or how the story continues.

I agree. D:OS2 had extreme level scaling, no respawns and killing things gave exp, plus you could not return to a former map.
This setup strongly encouraged players to kill everything before moving to the next area.

Please remember that BG3 is based on D&D, the tabletop game that coined the phrase 'murder hobos'. A level ten limitation can be seen as a challenge rather than a limit to some.

That's a really good point. Not a playstyle I would ever adopt, as doing quests and interacting with NPC is what I like the most but that would explain it's existance, even if it has some negative influence on other aspects.


I also love how it doesn't railroad players into doing one thing only (like modern DE do). Everything, from hacking to combat takes up resources - the better you get the less resources you will spent on each obstancle, whenever it's hack, lockpick or combat, but it doesn't prohibit you nor encourage you to always do that one thing. If you are a lockpicker you are likely to consider lockpicking more often, and you will be able to lockpick more things overall, but it doesn't mean you will always do that - sometimes using up ammo might be a more preferable option. Similarly, a combat oriented person can go everyonce in a while for a hack or lockpick - it will just be an expensive things to do.

Deus Ex is shockingly well designed.

Even on D&D, a lot of DMs uses milestone leveling.

VtMB is the best; zero XP for killing. All XP for side/main quest competition.

"How would you feel about having some sort of checkpoint based experience system and not getting experience for kills?"
Pretty disappointed,
but I think there is nothing worse, than level based XP, like in icewind dale 2... xD
Kill a dragon: 1000 xp

I wonder if it depends on our location and concurrent level. We know that the game is divided into acts, similar to DOS2. We level in an area, leave go to another zone and so on. The first level is in a wilderness infested with enemies and ne'er do wells. Conflict is acceptable and survival will be critical. We only have 7 days to rid ourselves of the tadpole before conversion. Desperation will drive us to do things efficiently and with haste. Once we are cured and head towards civilization we will have to conduct ourselves more appropriately. Baldur's Gate has a method of dealing with murder hobos. So quick exp gain for the first 5 levels then a gradual decrease to lengthen our journey towards the end goal of level 10.

I read a description about ceramorphosis(sic?), and whatever is happening with the tadpole to the PC's in this game is not standard. The standard version would incapacitate a person before the seven days is up, they wouldn't be prancing around the countryside adventuring.

But these are *special* tadpoles, not your everyday variety...