Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Unique Story Elements for Custom Characters

From the Reddit AMA, we learned that the intent for custom characters is that they will have rich roleplay opportunities equivalent to that of an origin character. The intent appears to be to develop a world that reacts to where a custom character is from, what race they are, and what class they are, and, most importantly, what actions they take in the game. My problem with this description stems from two points:

1) Wouldn't it be true that the game world would likewise respond to origin characters based off where they are from, what race they are, what class they are, and what actions they take in the game?

2) Wouldn't it also be true that origin characters would have special scenarios within the story, such as when Astarion wants to feast, that custom characters cannot access?

From these two points, it seems like origin characters would have access to anything custom characters have access to, but also additional story elements. So then, my question becomes: Has Larian outright stated that custom characters will have actual unique story events to which origin characters don't have access? Because what they said in the AMA did not convince me of such.

If the only selling point of a custom character is that it is something you made and therefore has a feeling of being more special, then that is not going to make people feel good about playing them. Custom characters need actual unique story elements that only they have access to based off the things you as a player select during character creation. And it needs to be things more interesting than race, class, and where they are from, because those 3 traits all exist on origin characters as well.

Agree but we don't really know yet.
I'm sceptical as you are atm and really hope custom characters Willem have their own story.

Early Access wil hopefully answer some of our questions. We know for certain that custom characters are natives of Baldur's Gate, with exceptions such as Drow (Underdark) and Githyanki (Astral Sea), so that will be an interesting interaction opportunities when we reach the city and how we feel about it.

That's a good question. Nothing like that has been mentioned, but custom characters are Baldurians (citizens of Baldur's Gate). That could lead to unique reactivity once we reach the city of BG. It would be nice if there were some unique interactions there based on our class/background.

This is what I want and would hope for as well.

I'm happy they give custom characters a greater impact in the story. Especially because I despised every single origin charater in DOS2. They were so kitschy, generic and bland.

Ideally, we would be able to chose from different personal histories, stroke of faiths, motivations and have NPCs react to that, rather than just to race and class.

My guess would be a yes..but whatever's true of origin characters are locked in for all time, whereas a custom character you create can choose to be and thus experience something completely different from them as well. Or in other words, the two experiences/playthroughs are separate/differential experiences anyway...unless you cross up one of the character elements with one of the origins. And as a custom you could claim to have experienced an outcome scenario that an 'Astarion' player didn't either.



Not saying no, because none of us would really be able to answer that yet....but taking into account as many permutations as they're talking already this early in development, unless you had the ability to stop time and play through all combination possibilities that exist upon launch and document them scientifically, I suppose my counter would be, what are you really missing at the end of the day?

I get the point you're trying to make - particularly if you're playing off the 'tags' that Larian used in their own proprietary DOS IP, which were way more limiting (generic staple tags vs generic + origin tags) than what they've been discussing with BG3 development - but with the depth already being talked about, while I don't have any pointed issue with the minor issue you're bringing up here mind you - end of the day I don't see it as much more than a minor issue myself. Unless I'm misinterpreting how Larian/Swen has explained what they're doing, there's no way you couldn't have 'unique story elements' that you would experience in a playthrough with, oh let's say, a dwarven warlock, that you couldn't with Astarion, to use your same example.

My beef would be if it were more like DOS2 where custom characters were by very nature lesser experiences...but in this scenario (taking them at their word based on what they've said to date now), this would not be true as-is, as my playthrough as a dwarven warlock would already be giving me unique and different experiences that a playthrough using any of the (currently existing/known) companions/origins I could play through in the game as would never give me.

In terms of what's been stated by Larian, this is the answer given in the Reddit AMA by rep Adam (Smith I'm assuming):

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I guess what I'm tryin to say is, taking your example of a Dwarf Warlock, we know that Wyll is going to be a Human Warlock origin character. So, anything the Warlock portion of your custom character experiences, Wyll will experience by nature of also being a Warlock. That is, unless, of course, Larian is attempting to make unique story elements for every single race/class combo rather than separate unique things for each race and each class. Now let's say by actual launch that there's also an origin character who is a Dwarf. Now, as that origin character, you will experience the world interacting to you because you're a Dwarf. On top of these experiences, since you're an origin character with a handcrafted background and goals, you'll also be experiencing unique, handcrafted story content for that.

So, the question becomes, why do I play a Dwarf Warlock custom character when I could instead play two playthroughs with Wyll and this other origin character that have more unique stories? This is what I was attempting to say about the need for custom characters to have something unique about them. Similar to what this guy said:



Personal histories and/or motivations to choose from that are different than the origin characters would make them on equal footing.

I t looks to be just like DoS2 and the NPCs are going to talk to the other people in the party instead of you. Only the Origin characters are going to have interaction with the world and Custom characters are not going to be as important. Just takes almost all the fun out of a a game that is supposed to be Baldurs Gate. Having played all of the previous BG games and everything called an RPG it just makes no sense. Having been a gamer since the 1970s and run campaigns that went on for decades the story is the most important part of the game. If your story defaults to an NPC in the party it isn't a story at all it is a mold that you HAVE to follow. Joined the forum just to post about how I feel on this specific example of things in games that make no sense.

They've stated the exact opposite of this statement. From the Reddit AMA:



Are there plans to make custom characters feel as unique as the origin ones? If so, what can you tell us about them?

Adam: Hello! I’m not Swen, I’m Adam, one of the Senior Writers on BG 3 . Custom characters are hugely important to us, and when you choose your class, race and background, you’ll already have made choices that have an impact throughout the game - both in terms of what you can do, how you’re perceived, and what you know. But just as in tabletop, it’s what you do after character creation and how you choose to roleplay that character that will make your adventure and character unique. In many ways, they’re more unique, because you made them.

The world and the characters that populate it - whether companions, NPCs, enemies or potential allies - will remember and react to your actions and attitude. Custom characters are central to the arc of BG3, and as your journey unfolds, you’ll walk your own path. And when your story ends, you’ll have determined your own fate… and the fate of many others.


I think the concern here is that people felt that playing DOS2 as non-origin characters was somewhat pointless because they would miss out on quite a few dialogue options, and would have substantially less storyline. This was especially true if you were playing co-op, because each person who made a custom decreased how much you could interact with even companion stories. Will there be more storyline for customs than what was seen in DOS2? Perhaps something akin to Dragon Age Origins origin characters?

Adam: This isn’t DOS2. In BG3, custom characters have a much stronger connection to the world and the main arc of the story - whether they’re from Baldur’s Gate, further afield, or somewhere else entirely (hey, githyanki). The campaign is much more reactive to your actions - when we say there are serious consequences to your choices, we really mean it - and as you move through your adventure, you’ll discover quest-lines and stories that relate directly to the character you’re roleplaying, and the things that you’ve done. We’re confident that you won’t feel short-changed in terms of narrative breadth and depth if you choose to play as a custom character- we love our origins, but this campaign is built for all of you.

See, *this* is the critical part that I needed to hear from Larian. I had not seen this before now. This is *exactly* what I've been griping about re. this particular issue, namely that I should not be short-changed on PC interactivity relative to an origin PC if I choose to play a custom PC. And if Adam here is being totally honest and truthful, then this issue goes away for me.

Thanks, @Tyndaleon, for posting it.

You're quite welcome sir. I've actually been going back through all the interviews that can be found out there recently, (partly as a refresher for myself just in anticipation, partly as a means to try and interject fact and true knowledge gleaned from the only source that really knows for sure in so many of these otherwise assumptive (on either or both sides) debate scenarios), and I've run across many things I hadn't seen or read before actually. The Reddit AMA was not one of those, but it is deep enough certainly for people to have either forgotten or otherwise accidentally glossed over some things.

Actually there's 2 written articles both involving Adam Smith I discovered just in the last 2 days that are compelling reads, and Tesla over on the Steam BG3 discussion forum has a running master compilation of everything and added those in yesterday along with 2 other articles I found. Here's the link directly to it:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1086940/discussions/0/1750150402422718627/

I personally don't think the wording of the AMA is conclusive enough to be reassuring. They speak on actions being the most important part of the world reacting to you, but never speak about uniqueness of story between origins and custom characters. In other words, it sounds like "trust us, it's better than dos2" but without any concrete examples as to how. I am sure it feels a bit better, but I'm wondering in what ways it actually is.

Sorry to cut such a long post down to a single line, normally I would address more than one point in a post at a time. In this case, however, I do want to focus on this, because I do think there are people that agree with this sentiment; the belief that if you're so overwhelmed with options already, what difference does a few more matter?

I have an answer to this, and it's been a point of concern of mine since BG3 started getting gameplay videos. What's lost here is legitimate roleplay of a custom character, to some degree. Not because it's worse than other games, but because it's worse than an origin you can play as.

I fear that custom characters will boil down to "Blank Slate Character ### Class/Race/Background, Voice 3 of 6, Male." Meanwhile, every origin gets to have a tailored experience, and you could have chosen to be one of them, even if you were really hoping to get a full experience as a custom roleplay character. I know this point has been beaten to death, but it's incredibly important to my enjoyment of the game. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a similar feeling.

I've put forth a lot of unheard ideas out there, from limiting origin dialogue options to things that are true to the origin's personality to outright removing the ability to play as them. But they're unpopular ideas, and for good reason - limiting player choice sucks ass, and taking away an expected feature does too. But I struggle to think of another way to make a custom character feel like more than a husk of a protagonist.

I agree, and that's why I have that "if" at the end of my post. This is something I also will need to see for myself before I am fully satisfied.

I share this feeling with you in a huge way.

I certainly get what you're saying, and don't disagree in the slightest....but by the same token, in this regard a CRPG that has 'origin' or fully unique crafted characters, is always going to have this issue to some degree vs say what you can do or roleplay in a PNP/tabletop context. Larian unfortunately can't step in on the fly with everyone and play a live DM role, or create voice content for everything in a custom character context that we might think of or want to say or do in response on the fly.

So, getting back to origin vs. custom and whatever options are available to the first vs the 2nd, to clarify what I meant by 'what are you really missing', you'd first have to know every possible permutation of an origin and be aware of it to know you'd be missing that, but also, if you want those experiences, and we'll go back and use Astarion again....then you can play as Astarion and get those experiences. The only side angle of this where I could envision this angle perhaps being an issue is if, again, they were going to later come out and say (sticking to this example and the context therein) vampire spawn, but you wanted to say make and play a female VS instead, or a different looking one, with a different name, but yet wanted to experience Astarion's same 'box set of permutations' we'll call it. In that instance, that would certainly be achievable, if Larian is willing to go the length to provide that variance against whatever full roster of origin chars are in play and provide that kind of customization/'plug in' factor.

Otherwise, even the origins are limited to the same pre-programmed 'box set' of permutations available too in their own way, even if we don't know what those are yet either. To me, the real meaty question boils down to, are custom character combinations going to have their own set of pre-programmed permutations box set that is wholly and separately (to varying degrees at least) divergent from origins, or rather, can I experience things on a custom that I can't or won't on a given origin? Let's take Gale, a human male wizard....if I create say a female high elf wizard with a completely different background from Gale's, am I going to experience different possibilities and permutations within the overall box set, that Gale never would/could if I played as him instead?

If Larian's answer to that ^ (whether in an interview question or eventually discovered over time through gameplay experience down the road) is a yes, I'll be satisfied, speaking for myself. But all that remains to be seen at this early stage.

This is the question that I asked, or at least intended to ask, in the original post and all posts thereafter and I agree with t the sentiment, obviously. As long as there are unique things that only custom characters experience, I'm very happy to see origin characters with their custom stories as well. More options is never a bad thing. I'm just asking for custom characters to be handled with the same level of TLC as origin characters so that we can choose unique characteristics in character creation and see unique results in game no matter what type of character we feel like making.

Adam seemed to stress that mindset early on in the interview I previously referenced.....but in terms of the depth involved, my guess is we'll just have to see what the community at large roots out starting in EA. If the scope of the extent of permutations/options based on each choice made is as deep as they're making it sound, one can only hope that a proverbial flow chart for any character custom or otherwise would take several days and a full game release to truly map out with save scumming....at which point, any of us that tried it probably circles back by halfway through if not before to my 'what are we really missing here anyway?' question.

I'd say it's super likely that custom character will be "lesser" experience as you put it. If you want to have the ability to fully roleplay as your custom characters, then a blank slate with no background gives you the most freedom to do so. I think Adams answers also point towards this direction. World will react to your class and your actions, but not any differently than they would to Origin character with same class and actions.

So if your class / race combo is available as Origin character, that's going to mean more content available for you than Custom character. However, then you are bound by that Origin story too. If your class / race combo isn't an origin story, then you will have an unique story that no Origin chraracter could replicate exactly.

I very much doubt there will be content locked away from Origin characters that can only be accessed by ALL custom characters. Since some classes/races aren't represented by an Origin character (probably?), those classes/races might give you some unique content only Custom characters can see.

From the sound of it this game is going to have an absurd amount of content. I don’t see the problem if origin characters have a slightly more absurd amount of content than custom characters. This is such a bizarre thing to be upset about.