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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
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So, I appreciate that there was a generalised desire to do away with alignments. However, since the tag system does exist, it could be nice to have some tags which relate to it, at least? That's not incompatible is it? This is the classical description of alignments: Lawful Good, "Crusader" A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. He combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. He tells the truth, keeps his word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.
Lawful good is the best alignment you can be because it combines honor and compassion.
Lawful good can be a dangerous alignment when it restricts freedom and criminalizes self-interest.
Neutral Good, "Benefactor" A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them.
Neutral good is the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias for or against order.
Neutral good can be a dangerous alignment when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.
Chaotic Good, "Rebel" A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he's kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.
Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.
Chaotic good can be a dangerous alignment when it disrupts the order of society and punishes those who do well for themselves.
Lawful Neutral, "Judge" A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government.
Lawful neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot.
Lawful neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it seeks to eliminate all freedom, choice, and diversity in society.
Neutral, "Undecided" A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn't feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos. Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character thinks of good as better than evil-after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she's not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.
Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.
Neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you act naturally, without prejudice or compulsion.
Neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it represents apathy, indifference, and a lack of conviction.
Chaotic Neutral, "Free Spirit" A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.
Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal.
Chaotic neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it seeks to eliminate all authority, harmony, and order in society.
Lawful Evil, "Dominator" A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises.
This reluctance comes partly from his nature and partly because he depends on order to protect himself from those who oppose him on moral grounds. Some lawful evil villains have particular taboos, such as not killing in cold blood (but having underlings do it) or not letting children come to harm (if it can be helped). They imagine that these compunctions put them above unprincipled villains.
Some lawful evil people and creatures commit themselves to evil with a zeal like that of a crusader committed to good. Beyond being willing to hurt others for their own ends, they take pleasure in spreading evil as an end unto itself. They may also see doing evil as part of a duty to an evil deity or master.
Lawful evil is sometimes called "diabolical," because devils are the epitome of lawful evil.
Lawful evil creatures consider their alignment to be the best because it combines honor with a dedicated self-interest.
Lawful evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents methodical, intentional, and frequently successful evil.
Neutral Evil, "Malefactor" A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn't have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.
Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.
Neutral evil beings consider their alignment to be the best because they can advance themselves without regard for others.
Neutral evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honor and without variation.
Chaotic Evil, "Destroyer" A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.
Chaotic evil is sometimes called "demonic" because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil.
Chaotic evil beings believe their alignment is the best because it combines self-interest and pure freedom.
Chaotic evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents the destruction not only of beauty and life but also of the order on which beauty and life depend. If for some reason there is an aversion to using the traditional titles, easydamus has provided an alternative (ref) set of titles, which might perhaps work. Righteous (Lawful Good) - Conformity/Tradition and Benevolence
Humane (Neutral Good) - Benevolence and Universalism
Transcendent (Chaotic Good) - Universalism and Self-Direction
Autonomous (Chaotic Neutral) - Self-Direction and Stimulation
Sybaritic (Chaotic Evil) - Hedonism
Ambitious (Neutral Evil) - Achievement and Power
Ascendent (Lawful Evil) - Power and Security
Orthodox (Lawful Neutral) - Security and Conformity/Tradition
Pragmatic (True Neutral) - (any values)
Last edited by Dark_Ansem; 07/10/20 10:37 AM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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Alignment has always been a divisive feature among the community. I think it works better in videogames than in tabletop games though because in videogames, you have a box already designed and delimited for you to play in. In a tabletop game, imagination is the only limit so it's harder to really stick with such vague moral principles.
Back in BG1 & 2 alignment did a pretty good job creating room for banter among the party and leading up to pretty extreme situations (like one companion leaving your group after another bad decision). It even featured some nice character progression (looking at you Viconia) when you were able to change a companions alignement thanks to your choices.
I feel like BG3 could benefit strongly from such mechanics, even if it takes the shape of tags instead of a standard alignement chart. I don't care what mechanics are used behind it as long as my companions interact with each other in a coherent manner. I shouldn't have to deal with companions who want me dead and leave me alone to deal with foes while watching in the background.
Last edited by Temperance; 07/10/20 10:50 AM.
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
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Yes I agree - Wizards said that alignments were to be excluded, but I think that tags, either selected at CC or earned through gameplay (a bit like Planescape Torment did, where you started off as a true neutral) would work.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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Yes I agree - Wizards said that alignments were to be excluded, but I think that tags, either selected at CC or earned through gameplay (a bit like Planescape Torment did, where you started off as a true neutral) would work. As I've seen on other posts on the internets, it would also be a good idea to implement a tab dedicated to religion on character creation. I think at least half of players will be newcomers to the Forgotten Realms and having a breakdown of religion might help them get into character (and being not that friendly to a certain priestess of Shar for example). It could help fill the void left by alignments.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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I agree that tags would be great, especially tags that are can be earned (and even lost, if you change your behavior.).
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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using tags to fit with the old alignments - and having them be based on choices does seem like a neat way of doing it, kind of doubling as a reputation (thing BG1 & 2)
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
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I'm being a talkative goody two shoes, what does that make me? Lol
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2015
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The protection from alignment spell exists in the game so yeah, why shouldn't we be able see or choose what our alignment is? Maybe it just acts as a general purpose protection spell now but it's suggesting that there are still alignments at any rate..
I do feel that in video game world being able to designate your alignment helps define your character better.. even if it's just a tag that has no bearing on the game play. It's the little things that make you feel like you are creating your own unique character.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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I can see why alignments have been just ignored considering the NPCS available. (a vampire, a priestess of Shar, a fiend pact warlock and githyanki)- Looks like an all evil party to me.
However marketing them all evil would probably costs sales so they abolished the concepts of good and evil and come up with a new fangled tags.......actually i better stop here this is begining to sound like modern politics.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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I can see why alignments have been just ignored considering the NPCS available. (a vampire, a priestess of Shar, a fiend pact warlock and githyanki)- Looks like an all evil party to me.
However marketing them all evil would probably costs sales so they abolished the concepts of good and evil and come up with a new fangled tags.......actually i better stop here this is begining to sound like modern politics. I feel ya... I never was a big fan of the concept of an alignment system, but it had it's purpose. If Larians doesn't want players to know, that's fine, but hiding it behind arbitrary labels? Nah.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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Larian did do something similar in DOS II with the Hero and Villain tags. They may add those types of tags again depending on what quests you complete and how you complete them.
Elf Cleric for Hire! I only accept gold or compliments to my healing. Doubting me costs EXTRA.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2020
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There's some systemic stuff still tied to alighnment, but 5e has been moving away from them regarding how prominent they are. Apparently Wizards were the one who wanted alignment demphasized in the game and I for one like that. But regarding Wyll, he seems like his story is going to be that of a chaotic good person who made a bad deal in a moment of weakness. Maybe it'll turn out he's actually full on evil, but I doubt it right now, given how he's acting. So at this point he seems like our token good companion.
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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
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I can see why alignments have been just ignored considering the NPCS available. (a vampire, a priestess of Shar, a fiend pact warlock and githyanki)- Looks like an all evil party to me.
However marketing them all evil would probably costs sales so they abolished the concepts of good and evil and come up with a new fangled tags.......actually i better stop here this is begining to sound like modern politics. Planescape Torment had a non good party and it is probably the best RPG of all time, what is your point?
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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I can see why alignments have been just ignored considering the NPCS available. (a vampire, a priestess of Shar, a fiend pact warlock and githyanki)- Looks like an all evil party to me.
However marketing them all evil would probably costs sales so they abolished the concepts of good and evil and come up with a new fangled tags.......actually i better stop here this is begining to sound like modern politics. Planescape Torment had a non good party and it is probably the best RPG of all time, what is your point? True, but PST had clear aligments... I mean, sure it had, it's Planescape.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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It would be awesome, if they would add something like alignment, even if there is no alignments in 5th ed. Though, creatures in Monster Manual, even in 5th ed., have their alignments.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2020
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I can see why alignments have been just ignored considering the NPCS available. (a vampire, a priestess of Shar, a fiend pact warlock and githyanki)- Looks like an all evil party to me.
However marketing them all evil would probably costs sales so they abolished the concepts of good and evil and come up with a new fangled tags.......actually i better stop here this is begining to sound like modern politics. The "good" origin characters are coming later. Larian deliberately put the more "evil/murky" origin characters in first to see what we would do with them and the game. In EA we have been asked to behave a little less nice and break the game for the benefit of 1.0 release.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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The "good" origin characters are coming later. What the Hells are you talking about? There are 5 origin characters, you can see them all on the banner of the site. There will be no origin characters "coming later". To the OP: the fiend pact warlock wants to break the pact with a fiend, priestess of Shar is not exactly evil (how did you came up with such conclusion), a vampire is not evil, but was a slave of a high vampire, now freed, githyanki, well, I don't like this arrogant btch, but as well, not exactly evil, what are you talking about.
Last edited by Chaotic Good; 08/10/20 09:31 AM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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The "good" origin characters are coming later. What the Hells are you talking about? There are 5 origin characters, you can see them all on the banner of the site. There will be no origin characters "coming later". Says who? The finished game is still a year out...
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
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The "good" origin characters are coming later. What the Hells are you talking about? There are 5 origin characters, you can see them all on the banner of the site. There will be no origin characters "coming later". Says who? The finished game is still a year out... Maybe then you will say some other random thought that will came up in your mind? "Says who"? Developers, who did not say anything about such. Some people don't have logic, it seems. Like flat-earthers with their theories, when you say to them that Earth is round say "Says who?". "Says" observable FACTS. Do you know how much work is to make an origin character, throughout the whole game, with thousands of lines of dialogues? Not even talking about technical parts, and relationships aspect. Indeed, a lot. And, game is OFFICIALLY in Alpha stage at this point, which means, base game is done, it is time for polishing and testing.
Last edited by Chaotic Good; 08/10/20 09:44 AM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Nov 2016
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There are some alignment tags. I have a Good Cleric tag. I am guessing they will add more tags that are gained through choices you make.
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