Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Pact of Blade confirmed via interview

Am I the only here that likes the Hexblade subclass for what it is without adding multiclassing or anything ?

I mean, I really dig the thematic of this subclass and I don't really see why some say it doesn't fit the Warlock class. I'd say this is more a question of preferences than anything else here.
Getting power from a sentient or shadowfell weapon/artifact sounds as good to me than getting from a random devil or far being.

However, I do agree that too many features of the subclass is front loaded on the 1st level and that having some merge within the pact of the blade may be a good thing...though I'd say it's more about getting the Hexblade paying for the sins of others classes (hey, paladins!) exploiting the feature to easily.

By itself I don't consider Hexblades to be that powerful. Good, yes, but not game breaking even though its other features form a nice package (medium armor, armor of hexes, the quite fitting spell list).

Not at all. That's the intended purpose of the subclasses: to provide options for character customizations that include aspects of other classes and/or variations of the base class. Theoretically, sufficiently enough *good* subclasses (and a more robust multiclass system cough cough) would completely invalidate the need for multiclassing at all.

A Warlock is defined by their acquisition of powers from a patron, usually involving some deal and/or more personal relationship between warlock & patron than that of Cleric & deity. Hexblade fits perfectly. However, it makes sense that Warlocks should either be able to make a pact with a sentient blade (hexblade) OR make a pact with an entity that gives the warlock supernatural prowess with the blade (Pact of the Blade) and importantly each class should be roughly equally powerful. At that point, why not just combine them into a single subclass/pact?

I've always hated multi-classing and felt it makes an already somewhat janky system even worse. According to Wizards of the Coast though, only slightly more than half of players multiclass, so I guess there are plenty of people that agree with you. Though you can multiclass in Pathfinder, there are a ton of classes that are 'purebreed' versions of multiclass designed to borrow playstyles from the original classes and meld them into something different with internal synergy.

That said said, if you really think Hexblades aren't 'good' (something I disagree with unless we're talking hard cheese, but whatever), then you should honestly LIKE this change, because now it means you get to be a hexblade + a typical warlock subclass and get the benefits of both.

Cant say i see the difference ...

Lifedrinker adds your Charisma modifier to your weapon damage ...
Feature that Larian tunes Pact of Blade so it gives your Charisma modififer to your weapon damage ...

What interests me tho, is if we will have option to have both. >:]

Indeed ...
Important question tho, is same as abowe ... but i gues tree attacks with single action on level 5 would be kinda too much, so this invocation will most likely be left out.
Or obtained automaticly ... depends on point of view.

To clarify, a hexblade with the blade pact who takes the lifedrinker invocation adds charisma bonus to damage TWICE. A blade pact warlock of any other patron adds str or dex once (depending on weapon) and charisma once, provided they have the lifedrinker invocation.

2Xcharisma mod is fairly powerful, but it doesn't come online until level 12, so I think this is fine.

Also, I sincerely doubt that they are giving blade pact warlocks the thirsting blade invocation "for free". They will still have to pay for it with an invocation.

Also... note that the damage added by lifedrinker has the necrotic type, whereas the damage added by the usual stat modifier has the same type as the weapon. It not the same damage.

Well, it's part of pact of the blade now, though you have to be level 5. Basically, turns you into a martial. I do agree that Thirsting Blade will either be gone or do something else. More correctly, I think it'll be replaced by a new evocation with other features from hexblade and/or the rest of Hex Warrior. If you want the extra melee attack, just take pact of the blade.

Lifedrinker lets you add charisma to your DAMAGE rolls.
If you are anything other than hexblade, that means you deal for example 1d10+str+cha. With hexblade of course 1d10+cha+cha (if the damage die of the weapon was 1d10)

However, crucially, unlike hex warrior, it does not add anything to your ATTACK rolls. Your attacks do not become more or less accurate. With something like +3 str, you miss a lot more than with +5 from charisma. That is really the difference.

Hex warrior increases accuracy, lifedrinker adds more damage (hex warrior adds cha-str, so something like 2 usually. Lifedrinker adds cha, so 5)

Okay, I've read the playtest finally. It appears that they are refactoring the three pacts as cantrips. What is not clear (to me) is whether warlocks will have access to all three of these cantrips. I'm going to guess no, but I really don't know.

In any case, it is also unclear to me whether Larian is actually using this for BG3. The Italian article does not say much, and it appears to be fairly confused about how Warlocks work NOW, so I am not sure how far to trust it (to be fair, the problem may just be Google Translate). My confusion stems from the fact that they say that Warlock does not get an extra attack, but this is untrue due to the fact that blade pact does get access to thirsting blade.

It would be really easy for Larian to just apply charisma mod to attack/damage for blade pact weapons, add the thirsting blade invocation, and then leave everything else pretty much the same as it was in early access. But maybe they did something else? We'll find out on August 3.

Hex warrior also increases damage. It specifically states you may use CHR INSTEAD of STR or DEX, for Attack AND Damage rolls. Yes, lifedrinker doesn't make your attacks more accurate (that would be broken, though honestly, it's easy enough to do anyway especially in BG3 with your own farts giving you advantage). The point here is that you already get the standard desired martial setup all in one with Pact of the Blade now, as in CHR now handles all your melee damage stuff with your pact weapon which can be anything, but if you really want to for whatever weirdo reason, you can still use Str or Dex as normal. Lifedrinker is good because it basically doubles the damage you get from your modifier, which is still fantastic.


Imo it'd be splitting hairs no matter what they do. They've homebrewed so much already this is barely DnD 5E. Frankly, they're going to need to shore up this more than you seem to think, though, as warlocks that go pack of the blade should be able to get medium armor and shield proficiency too, just like hexblades do, so either way it's gonna blended into pact of the blade or maybe thirsting blade or it'll be its own incovcation with thristing blade being part of pact of the blade and just given you extra attack at 5.

Again, splitting hairs, same difference, and I think it's okay to lose a few hexblade features or make them have an opportunity cost to obtain because you're already getting patron features the hexblade didn't get.

I doubt it is used verbatim as Larian likely made their changes before the D&D One Playtest was released.
It is likely to be inspired by the direction that Wizards of the Coast is taking the Blade Pact.

I think WotC are in some capacity involved with the mechanics of the game and would like the game to reflect some of the changes they are implementing in the next generation of D&D. But the problem there is they are still making changes all the time and some of the changes that WotC wanted to make were catastrophically bad. I can't help but wonder how many of those terrible WotC decisions will plague the game. That is where I believe the horrid new multiclass system comes from for example.

The Warlock class information is on page 31 of the "Playtest 5" document linked at the top. You do indeed get only ONE of the pact cantrips. Warlock is also a half caster, with spell slot progression similar to Paladin or Ranger. Mystic Arcanum is an invocation rather than a class feature, and may be taken multiple times to obtain access to spells higher than level 5 (where warlock progression tops out). Spell slots regenerate on long rest now, rather than short rest.

I can understand why they would make this change. Warlock was always the odd one out when it came to multiclassing spell casters, and turning them officially into a half caster will make that easier. Still, I liked the short rest spell slot refresh, so I don't like this change.

The blade pact cantrip specifically disallows heavy weapons, which means that it misses out on the best part of the great weapon master feat. It also applies to melee weapons only, but thrown weapons are allowed. So... not clear whether sharpshooter will work. Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter also do not appear in either the playtest 5 or playtest 6 document, so its not clear whether or not they will still exist in their current form.

Lifedrinker moves to level 9, but gives a D6 instead of cha mod damage. It also heals the warlock the first time it is applied during a turn. This is basically a small nerf, but I suppose its not too big a deal, and getting it at 9th is nice. I think that the lack of heavy weapons is a bigger nerf. Hopefully they change that.

I might have badly expressed myself then (sorry for my broken english) as I 'do' think that Hexblade is 'mechanically' a good subclass by itself.
My issue is that for some, the whole subclass is summarized by its Hex Warrior feature (which is accessible too early), while they dismiss the rest (the theme, the spell lists, the focus on hexes) as if it doesn't really matter to define what the subclass offers and tells as a story.
So, no, i don't think a typical warlock with the pact of the blade is 'better' than a pure Hexblade, that would just be something else (which may be a blast to play for those into it).

In the end I guess everyone seeks and enjoy different things, I personally just find sad that those not really interested into the whole Hexblade package say that merging the one feature other classes abuse is a reason good enough to invalidate the rest of the subclass.

I'm gonna pipe up and say that I want Hexblade for the story and flavor. I think it's an incredibly cool class and I wish we could get it in this game. I don't even care if they've already added the new features to baseline pact of the blade, I want the flavour and reactivity of pact of the blade.

Yes, that is what I meant by going from 3 (16 str) to 5 (20 cha) in damage. Not much of an increase.

Lifedrinker is necessary to keep in addition to Hex Warrior as an invocation. At lv 11, you get a third eldritch blast. This is to make you keep up in damage SOMEWHAT. Silimar to improved divine smite for the Paladin, which also gives them +1d8 (4.5) on every hit, or fighters, who get another attack.

In fact, pact of the blade really is only worth using over eldritch blast consistently if you include eldritch smite. In most calculations, just because how invocation hungry it is, blasting is still better. Only disadvantage I see is not getting access to sharpshooter with EB...

I see no reason not to include Lifedrinker (and improved pact weapon and eldritch smite) just because we get hex warrior to pact of the blade.

Actually, scratch that. It is really stupid to add the cha to damage. Warlocks still will have no armor without high dex, but that defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
Instead of adding thirsting blade to the pact automatically, for literally no reason, give them the medium armor (and shield) proficiency they deserve!

That is far more important. Thirsting Blade should stay as an invocation.
In fact, as always, Larian, just leave DnD as it is and it will be fine...
Sigh

Okay, I get what you mean now. To be fair, I understand where you're coming, but I feel Hexblade was already one of the most flavorless options for warlocks to begin with. The line about the Raven Queen is throwaway, there are no real flavorful tie-ins, and her presence as a patron or the class's supposed connection to shadowfell are all poorly visualized. Honestly, most warlocks do a terrible job of flavoring their patron anyways, but whenever someone plays it at our table our GM insists on making it a huge part of their RP identity and that can be harder for hexblades than others.

If you want to go this route, I would much rather unique types of pact weapons (for instance, fiend patron's pact weapon is fire damage or something) where you kind of become a weapon/sorta-paladin of a patron, or create a patron more tied to the concept of martial prowess than the Raven Queen is, maybe a god sending out bonding weapons or choosing warriors and subtly forcing them to fight each other to test his creations.


I like playing hexblade because it's one of the least janky ways to play a fairly balanced and properly flavored close combat mage (artificer can be too but they didn't give us that...). I always have to add my own flavor to it though when I play it at TT, which I do for all classes true, but it feels like hexblades need it the most. There are a lot of great ways to seed that with fiend (look at Wyll; perfect and obvious), archfey, or even GOO (basically your thrice cursed twice blessed Cthulhu mythos chad), but not really hexblade.

I think WoTC agrees because instead of revamping the patron they just let it be an option for all warlocks. Thematically, I think this fits better personally, and imo they should instead just make the Raven Queen a more realized patron closer to the others and let people free to choose Pact of the Blade with her or not.

The hexblade is very much based on Elric (Michael Moorcock), which everyone really aught to read. In that case the sword itself (Stormbringer) was the patron.

But mechanically, it was only introduced because Pact of the Blade was so messed up in the original PHB rules.

As for the Raven Queen, she isn't even a Forgotten Realms deity.

I've participated in all 6 of the D&D One playtests and don't recall any change to multi-classing.

While the new system is certainly different, it might be horrid it might also be good, it's tough for me to say until I've actually tried it.

Although I'll put at least 13s in my multi-classing stats for my first bunch of play-throughs I may experiment with the new system later on. The lack of stat requirements sure makes something like a Storm Sorcerer-Tempest Cleric build much more viable with a 27 point buy.

I never like the 13 requirement to multiclass. It just seemed like an arbitrary number. Even numbers are what matters in this game. Excluding str and weight restrictions. However, think there needs to be a minimum of at least 12 or even a 14. 12 though makes more since IMO, especially for a basic level dip. So with that, my charecters will at least have a 12 in their secondary class.