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The ability rolls in this game are way too high for most of these and cause a difficulty curve that wouldn't pass in any D&D campaign unless your DM is a sadist. In D&D, if a roll needs to be above 15, it's because that is a path the DM really doesn't want you to take as sit will alter their campaign or, give an easy out for something they would rather be hard. This works great in D&D because the DM can easily fudge the rolls or grant situational advantage/disadvantage depending on how you approach it. This does not work out so well in a video game because you are instead presenting an unsurmountable challenge with no chance of success. A prime example of this happens in the first few minutes of playing when you find a newborn intellect devourer. It gives you an option to wound the creature with a dexterity check. My dexterity was 17 due to bonuses and focusing most of the point buy into that stat. It gives me a +3 bonus and tells me I need to get a 15 or higher. Based off of the mechanics as I've figured them out, this would mean that I would've needed to get an 18 or higher if I didn't have the +3 bonus. Now, this part doesn't affect much and just means whether you fight the nasty little creature or get it to join you but, there are several places where these insanely high rolls are required, one of which involves saving the life of a little girl. I'm not saying nerf all the rolls but, as a general rule, DMs usually set their rolls to be based off of tiers of difficulty. I'll present the tiers and examples of what would fall into those tiers.

Tier 1: Easy - Rolls in this tier tend to be anything 5+ and this is used for simple things that you're pretty much guaranteed to succeed at anyways so DMs will usually just ask if your stat or ability gives you a bonus or a negative. If so, they probably won't even make you roll for it unless they want to see if you get a crit fail for laughs. This is usually for stuff like jumping small gaps or over something or feeling the hand of an orc barbarian fishing in your pockets.

Tier 2: Medium - Rolls in this tier tend to be anything 10+ and this is used for things that you have about a 50/50 shot on. DMs usually toss these out if a result could be interesting for the campaign either way and they just want to see where the dice lead you. This should be your go-to tier for persuasion, intimidation, etc. unless the NPC in question is a staunch believer in their side. In other words, a bunch of bandits robbing a tomb, may be less willing to fight a full party of adventurers if they say something intimidating about bodily harm but, if it's just two level one adventurers and the grave-robbers have you out-numbered, it might go up to a tier 3.

Tier 3: Hard - Rolls in this tier tend to be anything 15+ and are put this way to stop players from meta-gaming or cheaping through content. A lot of players will try to use tactics such as planting explosives behind a big boss fight or intimidating/seducing the big bad. This level of creativity is great from players but, if you spent months planning out a campaign, you don't want them to accomplish their goals too quickly so, you'll make it harder to succeed at their attempts.

Tier 4: 'Impossible' - Rolls in this tier are anything 18+ and are meant to put a hard stop to player's shenanigans. If players are doing crazy crap just to see if they can get away with it, this is meant to put a stop to their actions. Also helps when a player doesn't listen to reason. A good example is a player playing as a skeleton trying to perform for a tavern with a trumpet. Yes, this has happened and, although I pointed out skeletons don't have lungs, he insisted on rolling so I put it at this tier. He got a 20... So, I said he succeeded because he put a bagpipe in his rib cage and up through the skeleton's mouth and used the air from the bagpipes to blow on the trumpet.

As you can see, these tiers aren't set in stone and lots of things can alter what tier the roll falls under. This is one of the beautiful things about D&D, nothing is set in stone. The books even tell you that it is more of a guideline and the DM gets final say on everything. It's for this very reason, this game feels so far from D&D. There is no system for checks and balances. The system doesn't grant advantage or disadvantage depending on how you approach a situation. It doesn't scale an ability roll up or down depending on who is in your party or how close in proximity your are to each other. All of these things make D&D what it is and why it's so fun. You can take 5 different groups of players and put them all in the same exact campaign and I can guarantee each group will have a different story of how that campaign played out because they approached it differently and the dice decided their fate.

tl;dr: Find a way to make the system calculate the difficulty of ability checks based on things like stats, party members, classes and races. Having a set flat number to hit on the dice and subtracting from that based on obscure bonuses is killing the fun of the game.

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There is an established system of how to translate DC difficulty and you are, respectfully, way off:

DC 5 = very easy
DC 10 = easy
DC 15 = medium
DC 20 = hard
DC 25 = very hard
DC 30 = nearly impossible

Keep in mind you have ability modifiers and proficiency bonuses, and in early access characters are very low level. Things like expertise eventually come into play. I do think Larian could do a better job implementing systems like using help to gain advantage on a check (when it makes sense), the guidance cantrip, etc. although some of this will be trickier in a video game setting.

It's also easy to miss but the "target" system they are using is not the same as the DC. If the DC is 15 and your character has a +5 to the check (2 from proficiency, 3 from ability mod) then the UI will show a target roll of 10. So that character with +5 has a 55% chance to succeed on the roll. There are a lot of complaints that this is a weird and confusing way to do it.

Last edited by PumatsHole; 11/10/20 01:39 PM.
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I oversimplified it on purpose because I'm not sure where they are going with this game as far as level caps and such. The DC difficulty table you laid out works fine for D&D campaigns that result in a level 20 party of 4-6 players but, from what I've seen from the game, it wouldn't work out so easily in BG3 for a few reasons such as the 1 try limit, reduced party size and bonus caps. So far, my stats have been maxing out at 17 and I haven't seen a way to increase them any further in early access. In normal D&D, the max limit on a stat is 18-20 depending on the DM and campaign so hitting a 25 or 30 with feats, expertise, racial bonuses, class bonus, background bonuses, inspiration and the like are all possible. However, I am not aware of any mention of feats, inspiration or even stat boosts as you level up in BG3 so you can't use traditional D&D logic.

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I leveled up all the way to 5, my Charisma on my tiefling warlock hit 18 as soon as I hit level 4. I had the option to take a feat but decided against it for the ability score bonuses instead. And while I agree that it doesn't really factor in the fact most DMs allow a party to try multiple times to persuade a person... I feel like to some extent that's 'okay' - but I wouldn't mind a scaling difficulty for success/fails that allow you to use multiple members of your party to try and get the better option to come through. Something like adding a certain number to the DC to show that this character is clearly frustrated by your attempts or something.

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Just my 2 cents here regarding skill-checks/rolls.
One thing i would like to see them adding is what i do usually during my tabletop sessions (andi think Disco Elysium does this well too) is creating the need to look for situational modifiers (you read a book about the subject, you met NPC who talked about this to you, you have an item which can be used for the check etc) in addition to the character (skill/class/proficiency) modifiers to improve your chance of success for a key skill-check. its more rewarding to win a check if the dc can be legitly reduced by your efforts and it makes exploration also more rewarding and meaningful
trying the risky skill-checks can also involve XP gain as well (maybe failing them even more), in the end, you learn from your mistakes

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I completely agree with you on using things you find to adjust the rating. It would be super helpful and give a purpose for reading books and such. Honestly, I've been passing them over since I realized they serve no purpose beyond providing world-building and lore which, let's face it, ain't nobody got time for that if they aren't already knowledgeable about Forgotten Realms. I do actually have some good news, though. After some more playing, I did save the little girl. It took going in with Wyll's boosted persuasion from leveling up with guidance to knock it all the way down to an 11. Still barely scraped by with a 12 but I managed. So, I'd say the skill checks aren't impossible but you really have to think it through with who is going to initiate the conversation and what buffs need to be put on in advance and this is part of the problem. If you're going into a conversation with a new NPC and you have your entire party at your back, switching to another character should allow them to do that persuasion/intimidation/etc. roll.


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