Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback [Minor Suggestion] Make spears a finesse weapon

To get this out of the way, I completely realise that making spears a potential finesse weapon would be a deviation from D&D 5e, but I think where it is necessary, makes logical sense or adds interesting possibilities for players and roleplaying, it is a good thing to diverge from the foundational ruleset.

In my opinion, spears should have the Finesse property, meaning that they can be used with Dex instead of Str. For once it makes sense logically. Normal spears, especially if wielded with two hands, are light, pretty versatile and very fast weapons, making them much more fitting for being Dex based than some others of the finesse weapons (especially Scimitars). More importantly though, it would give interesting new ways for creating and roleplaying characters. Many spear users in fantasy can be classified as Dex based (Oberyn Martel being probably the most prominent) and it would be cool to be able to play similiar characters. Dex based fighters, rogues and especially rangers would get an interesting and thematically fitting weapon choice, without any real downside or game breaking consequence. The only negative aspect to this I could see, is that it could be a bit weird seeing a rogue sneaking through buildings with a spear, although something similiar could be said about sneaking in full medium armor with a big longbow on the back.

What are your opinions on this?

I am also disappointed that spears are two-handed instead of versatile. Spear and shield is a flavor I quite love for weaponry and it never seems to get into computer games.

Larian should have done this in DOS.
Good point with Oberyn.

Ultimately though, Larian is trying to abide by most rules in 5e. Since spears are not finesse weapons in 5e, I doubt they’ll change that. Rip

The problem with the spear being Finesse in 5e is that since it has the "thrown" property, it basically turns the spear into a version of the shortbow that is versatile, and can hit in melee.

Now, for some reason, Larian seems to have removed "thrown" from all (most?) of the weapons you find, despite adding a throw action. Which is weird. I'm hoping they will revert this decision, but if they didn't, I see no reason not to have the spear be a finesse weapon right this moment.


Edit: Spears are not versatile in BG3 either? Wth Larian?

Spears should definitively be versatile.

I'd like this but it's D&D, weapons and armor don't make sense.

Yes spears need to be versatile. As for them making finesse, and thrown they would not be the same as shortbows. More like a variant of javelin. Which I've yet to find in game, perhaps later on they'll be added until then I shall cry.

Adding the finessse modifier would be fine in my opinion, simply because spears can be used either through blunt force application or more dexteriously. Then again by that so could most weapons, well except those that are 2h like greatswords, greatclubs, great axes, battle axes, as well as blunt force weapons such as maces, hammers. Axes and hammers are not finesse weapons but more brute force.

That's a valid counterargument, although to be fair it wouldn't be quite like a shortbow because of course you can only throw as many spears as you have in your inventory, which wouldn't be too many unless you really want to cheese it. So far, sadly, the spear has none of those properties, so I guess we will have to wait whether Larian has planned anything for it. In general an interesting way to incorporate both versatile and finesse could be to allow players to use spears as a finesse weapon, but only if wielded with two hands. Once you use it one handed, you would have to use it with Strength.

I would house rule Spear into a finesse weapon too.

1. Why is Rapier the only d8 finesse weapon?

2. We need a two handed finesse weapon. Spear is the best candidate. Make it require Martial proficiency if it's "op" otherwise.

3. Who uses a Spear ever?

4. A High Elf Eldritch Knight with high dex who could throw the Spear and call it back would be really cool.

D&D combat rules are not realistic. They just aren't, and it has been a feature of the game since the very beginning.

Weapons do not act like they should. There is the much-overlooked sling (should be superior to a shortbow), Armour Class is clumsy and armour protection versus different weapons has only been tried back in 1e with that awful chart that most people I knew ignored. HP are awkward when you start analysing how damage is taken and resisted. And so on and so forth.

The point is that D&D itself does not offer a realistic simulation of combat, and Larian have largely used the D&D5 rules to create the game. Yes, spears ought to be better, but so should bows. Swords should not be able to cut through steel plate, enemies ought to surrender or fall crippled long before death, wearing 'studded leather' should be restricted to specialist adult clubs, etc etc.

However, in D&D, they are what they are. You either abide by D&D rules with all their peculiarities and faults, or you throw out the D&D aspect and make just another FRPG.

A Warlock Pact of the Blade could too, and it does look pretty cool.

Also there is really no mechanical advantage since light crossbows are 1d8.

A two handed finesse weapon lol. You know what finesse means? Just as a reminder, finesse allows you to use dexterity instead of strength for damage on weapons which are very light. Go find a two handed weapon as light as a dagger or a rapier. Good luck with that.

The rapier is the only d8 damage weapon because it is the biggest of the finesse weapons.

Have you ever thrown a spear in your life? If you did, you must know strength is more involved than dexterity in the process.

Even according to D&D rules, spears (3lb) have exactly the same weight as a Scimitar (a finesse weapon) and are only one lb heavier than a rapier, and you have to keep in mind the last two are wielded with only one hand, meaning that a spear wielded with two hands would feel even faster and lighter overall. If we are arguing from a point of accuracy then it is obvious that the spear should be a finesse weapon. Of course you need strength to be effective with a spear, just as you need strength to be effective with a proper rapier or a scimitar in real life, and going back to the one handed versus two handed argument you can argue that it would need more strength to effectively wield a scimitar/rapier than a spear. What finesse represents in my view is whether a weapon is fast enough, that with enough skill, reflexes and agility you can more effectively use enemy weak points, thus making it more important than raw strength alone and spears definitely fit that bill.

It's a slippery slope.

If a spear is Finesse (for the reasons you give, which I will not disagree with), then the estoc should also be Finesse. Which means that the greatsword (used properly, not just swung at someone's head) would qualify, as well as numerous spike-topped polearms, notably the pollaxe and halberd.

I don't disagree that the spear is poorly represented, but a line has been drawn by WoTC who developed the rules being used in this game. In a PnP game you can houserule to reflect your opinions and/or research, but in a CRPG the developers don't really have the option of variants for each play style.

A rapier isnt actually a particularly light weapon, it has a very similar weight to a longsword, but has a different weight distribution making it more nimble. But then DnD has to worry about stuff like class balance while history does not.

So yes its actually quite easy to find examples of rapiers of the same weight as longswords just looking at actual history.

Not really, if that were the case, you would have to carry ARROWS for your shortbow because of course you can only shoot as many ARROWS as you have in your inventory.