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Originally Posted by Xeviat
Veteran D&D player here, and veteran BG 1/2 player, but not a D:OS player.



4. I've long used advanced humanoid enemies. Bog standard enemies out of the book get boring after a while. I cut my teeth on 3E, so the idea of NPC classes (adept for spellcasters, warrior for combatants) makes perfect sense for me. They create dynamic fights. The PCs are special, they don't have to be the only Wizard in the world to be special.



I want to address this one in particular because my own campaigns heavily feature advanced humanoid enemies as well. I think it works well in a face to face setting where I can dynamically adjust the strength of the NPC enemies up or down, but the current iteration computer DM is relentless. When you have a party crushing DM and give them a bunch of additional goodies on top of this it can stop being fun VERY quickly. I'm looking at the Gnolls and seemingly endless Cleric enemies
Which I can forgive because THE ABSOLUTE and all
in general here honestly. That heat map of deaths Larian posted feels like it may be weighed more in favor of these special humanoids because of it and the completely garfunkled action economy/CR imbalances.

On the other hand, the players also have this problem though where there is an over saturation of items and scrolls that do roughly what every other party member can or can't. Having all of your weaknesses shored up is great, good. I love it from a design philosophy. But not here, if that makes sense. You can be accessible without being heavy handed or sacrificing the flavor of the setting.

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Area effect have issues, most of reason it makes melees really suck. DOS1 had same issues, but DOS 1 you have some nuts to make your shoes to immune to frost field, so you can't be prone, and you can save your movement point for next turn, it's sometimes benefit not to move. BG3 now, there's no saving movement point, and Fighters are just slipped by frozen field by frost ray (even they succeed first save), or they just jump with bonus action to dodge this field effect. Not just cantrip extort bonus action from melees, but also it makes me feel melees are becoming grasshopper. Make jump as other movement option like tabletop rule, if you want to move as much as strength point with jump, you should 10ft to run, half distance for standing jump, of course each foot you clear on the jump should cost a foot of movement.

And there's bug that jump saves movement point, jump + move can move further than just move. If you don't have thing to do with bonus action, jump is always good to do. Only 1 type of enemy exploits this bug, and it's so drastic thing.

Minotaurs that jump and dash are really crazy thing

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The more I browse the more I realize the crux of the most GLARING issues people seem to have isn't with the creativity Larion is expressing with stuff like more advanced enemies but the magic item density, drastic changes to as written cantrips and spells, and too much free damage from surfaces. I kind of want to pose a solution to all of these (Especially surfaces and cantrips honestly as it feels like the most "Divinity" problem as opposed to 5e problem) but it is getting pretty early over here.

I'll look at it with fresh perspective when I wake up and literally sleep on it for now.

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Originally Posted by Bugginity
Area effect have issues, most of reason it makes melees really suck. DOS1 had same issues, but DOS 1 you have some nuts to make your shoes to immune to frost field, so you can't be prone, and you can save your movement point for next turn, it's sometimes benefit not to move. BG3 now, there's no saving movement point, and Fighters are just slipped by frozen field by frost ray (even they succeed first save), or they just jump with bonus action to dodge this field effect. Not just cantrip extort bonus action from melees, but also it makes me feel melees are becoming grasshopper. Make jump as other movement option like tabletop rule, if you want to move as much as strength point with jump, you should 10ft to run, half distance for standing jump, of course each foot you clear on the jump should cost a foot of movement.

And there's bug that jump saves movement point, jump + move can move further than just move. If you don't have thing to do with bonus action, jump is always good to do. Only 1 type of enemy exploits this bug, and it's so drastic thing.

Minotaurs that jump and dash are really crazy thing


Don't worry, they also have their new version of phoenix dive/tactical retreat/cloak and dagger called misty step.

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Originally Posted by Hyuponia
Originally Posted by Khorvale
Originally Posted by Hyuponia
[Linked Image]

I am now going to make the rounds and screenshot some of the most ridiculous piles of -things- people just have scattered around and you tell me if it looks ridiculous honestly.


Well that's like the Grove Gate main armory that one, doesn't seem out of place.


Not sure what goofy one shots or campaigns you're getting up to, but I wouldn't dream of giving level 1~4 characters what is essentially a high level loot hoard fifteen minutes into the game. Magic items severely unbalance party dynamics and when I showed my own groups this screenshot.

"..Someone thought this was a good idea?" Was what one of my players said. I think it sums up the general confusion pretty well.


Well you say "give" but you realize all that stuff belongs to the Tiefling refugees, right? That's probably the majority of the gear they need to protect themselves against an evil, uncaring world, and you're going to steal that? You monster! laugh

I'm not saying that the loot couldn't use balancing but I think this is a pretty terrible example of it, I like that the gear that I imagine is pretty much essential for the refugees' survival is readily available if you're enough of a jerk to steal it, and if you ARE enough of a jerk to steal critical supplies from refugees it's nice that it's actually worth it and not just "being evil for evil's sake"

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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Originally Posted by Bugginity
Area effect have issues, most of reason it makes melees really suck. DOS1 had same issues, but DOS 1 you have some nuts to make your shoes to immune to frost field, so you can't be prone, and you can save your movement point for next turn, it's sometimes benefit not to move. BG3 now, there's no saving movement point, and Fighters are just slipped by frozen field by frost ray (even they succeed first save), or they just jump with bonus action to dodge this field effect. Not just cantrip extort bonus action from melees, but also it makes me feel melees are becoming grasshopper. Make jump as other movement option like tabletop rule, if you want to move as much as strength point with jump, you should 10ft to run, half distance for standing jump, of course each foot you clear on the jump should cost a foot of movement.

And there's bug that jump saves movement point, jump + move can move further than just move. If you don't have thing to do with bonus action, jump is always good to do. Only 1 type of enemy exploits this bug, and it's so drastic thing.

Minotaurs that jump and dash are really crazy thing


Don't worry, they also have their new version of phoenix dive/tactical retreat/cloak and dagger called misty step.


Misty step is a level 2 Conjuration spell available to Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard in 5e pnp. It also work as intended in the game (bonus action and 30 feet range).

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Originally Posted by Hyuponia
Originally Posted by Khorvale
Originally Posted by Hyuponia
[Linked Image]

I am now going to make the rounds and screenshot some of the most ridiculous piles of -things- people just have scattered around and you tell me if it looks ridiculous honestly.


Well that's like the Grove Gate main armory that one, doesn't seem out of place.


Not sure what goofy one shots or campaigns you're getting up to, but I wouldn't dream of giving level 1~4 characters what is essentially a high level loot hoard fifteen minutes into the game. Magic items severely unbalance party dynamics and when I showed my own groups this screenshot.

"..Someone thought this was a good idea?" Was what one of my players said. I think it sums up the general confusion pretty well.


I think you're assuming incorrectly that the value of loot is the same as it is in a 5e tabletop campaign. Most of what you find on those bodies is either vendor trash or something you would have found on a different body in five minutes anyway and the magic gloves are pretty crap right now too so they may as well be vendor trash. There's nothing high-level about the loot in that screenshot as far as being balanced within the context of the BG3 campaign.

Last edited by Sunfly; 15/10/20 12:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Originally Posted by Bugginity
Area effect have issues, most of reason it makes melees really suck. DOS1 had same issues, but DOS 1 you have some nuts to make your shoes to immune to frost field, so you can't be prone, and you can save your movement point for next turn, it's sometimes benefit not to move. BG3 now, there's no saving movement point, and Fighters are just slipped by frozen field by frost ray (even they succeed first save), or they just jump with bonus action to dodge this field effect. Not just cantrip extort bonus action from melees, but also it makes me feel melees are becoming grasshopper. Make jump as other movement option like tabletop rule, if you want to move as much as strength point with jump, you should 10ft to run, half distance for standing jump, of course each foot you clear on the jump should cost a foot of movement.

And there's bug that jump saves movement point, jump + move can move further than just move. If you don't have thing to do with bonus action, jump is always good to do. Only 1 type of enemy exploits this bug, and it's so drastic thing.

Minotaurs that jump and dash are really crazy thing


Don't worry, they also have their new version of phoenix dive/tactical retreat/cloak and dagger called misty step.


Misty step is a level 2 Conjuration spell available to Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard in 5e pnp. It also work as intended in the game (bonus action and 30 feet range).


You also get it from a neckless so even the most basic warrior has the ability. Nothing special.

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Originally Posted by xMardeRx
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Originally Posted by Bugginity
Area effect have issues, most of reason it makes melees really suck. DOS1 had same issues, but DOS 1 you have some nuts to make your shoes to immune to frost field, so you can't be prone, and you can save your movement point for next turn, it's sometimes benefit not to move. BG3 now, there's no saving movement point, and Fighters are just slipped by frozen field by frost ray (even they succeed first save), or they just jump with bonus action to dodge this field effect. Not just cantrip extort bonus action from melees, but also it makes me feel melees are becoming grasshopper. Make jump as other movement option like tabletop rule, if you want to move as much as strength point with jump, you should 10ft to run, half distance for standing jump, of course each foot you clear on the jump should cost a foot of movement.

And there's bug that jump saves movement point, jump + move can move further than just move. If you don't have thing to do with bonus action, jump is always good to do. Only 1 type of enemy exploits this bug, and it's so drastic thing.

Minotaurs that jump and dash are really crazy thing


Don't worry, they also have their new version of phoenix dive/tactical retreat/cloak and dagger called misty step.


Misty step is a level 2 Conjuration spell available to Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard in 5e pnp. It also work as intended in the game (bonus action and 30 feet range).


You also get it from a necklace so even the most basic warrior has the ability. Nothing special.


^ This. Way too many magic items that are WAY too strong for early 5e parties.

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I don't mind the Dancing Lights-granting amulet, since it's a reward for passing a very high DC, and is really only that useful for providing light for those without darkvision and aren't using Concentration spells. (Actually, since it's no longer mobile, maybe there's no harm in making it non-concentration in BG3.)

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