Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Two-weapon Fighting Query

So I am totally admitting I have no clue how D&D has changed the rules in 5E, but you used to be able to wield longswords (just for example) in each hand while dual-welding. Same with a rapier or any other one handed weapon. Did Two-Weapon Fighting change where you can only wield light weapons? Longswords just used to be versatile weapons meaning you could wield them with two hands if you wanted, but could just use it one-handed. Same with battle-axes, etcetera. I am assuming since it gives values for one-handed damage they just haven't implemented that function as of yet, or am I just not figuring out how to accomplish wielding them as one-handed for Two-Weapon Fighting style?

At base, you can only TWF with light weapons. To use one-handed, non-light weapons, you must take the Dual Wielder feat. As for versatile weapons; just equip your longsword in one hand and no other weapon or shield in the other, and you will wield it with 2 hands by default. Lae'zal wields her longsword in such a manner when you first meet her on the nautiloid.

I believe in 5E rules only the off-hand weapon was required to be light, so you could have a rapier and fencing dagger theme going on if you wanted

Without the feat, that you can get at 4th level, you can only dual wield light weapons. I took dual wield at 4th on my dex based fighter and he is now dual wielding 2 +1 rapiers.

Ah ha! Alright that is my problem I was having then. I only got my fighter to 2nd level before I quit. I'm assuming that'll be the same for the Ranger as well. Many thanks to you all for your help.

In D&D 5e two weapon fighting is a bonus action that can be taken in combat.

For reference...

Basic Rules:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#Two-Weapon-Fighting



NOTE:
- D&D 5e does not have main hand and off hand distinction. Either weapon can be used for action / bonus action attack. Subtle but important for those who wield two different weapons on turns they wish to use only their "off-hand" weapon and a different use of their bonus action.
- BG3 does not require attack action to use two-weapon fighting.
- Two weapon fighting style (Fighter, Ranger) allows to add modifier to two weapon fighting attack
- Dual Wielder feat allows non-light weapons.

Which is all kinds of broken, especially when rogues get two bonus actions. But it also steps on toes of specific class abilities unique to certain other ones (eldritch knight an valour bard in particular)

Well technically you do not even have to be able to wield longswords with one hand, that´s a thing of old versions of D&D that many games copied later, so two longswords would be a stretch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword

But as others said there are features that allow you to do that and add your full ability to damage too. two weapon martial style and dual-wielder.

I do not know if it would be in the game but there´s also double weapons in the TT, like double scimitars (Like in Kotor and NWN1 games)

In the 2nd edition rules the off hand was mandated to be smaller in size and weight than the main hand, thus it allowed the rapier and main-gauche combination but not a pair of rapiers. The penalty was -2/-4 reduced by the dexterity reaction adjustment. So in 2nd edition you couldn't dual wield longswords.
In Baldur's Gate 1 they used the optional weapon proficiencies, which set dual wielding penalties higher to begin with and had it reduced by levels. This means they didn't follow the 2nd edition ruleset for it.

In Neverwinter Nights 1 they began at -6/-10 and allowed you to dual wield longswords, but the penalties came down to 0/-2 provided you took two weapon fighting and ambidexterity feats and the off hand was light.
3rd edition was the same as NWN1 in terms of how they handled it.
Neverwinter Nights 2, however, baked ambidexterity into two weapon fighting giving you a free feat essentially.

So in both previous editions of dnd, two weapon fighting, or dual wielding as it can be known, has changed so many times not just between editions but also rulesets for the video games using them, that it's definitely best to simply learn how the game itself handles it and not to worry bout what has gone on before.

right now everyone gets ability modifier to damage rolls, so 2-weapon style is useless atm.

yeah two weapon fighting is broke right now.
off hand shouldn't get the extra damage, thats the whole point to the fighting style
off hand bonus action attack should only be an option after making a standard action attack
rogues shouldn't be getting two bonus actions, as it creates way too many balance issues.

I'm not sure I understand this comment. It work exactly like the dndbeyond description says in BG3. By default, it will eat the action and bonus action and you get two hits, but you can disable the auto dual wield (right under the melee/ranged weapon select buttons) so only the action is taken. Then you can use the bonus action for something else. The only thing you can't do is decide which of the weapon is the action and which one is the bonus action.

You can also take an action with something and pick the weapon attack as bonus action.

yup, and ability modifier is supposed to be added for offhand attack roles for everyone, but that's not happening. and thing's like hunter's mark and colossus slayer don't get added to offhand attacks even when it's your first hit of your turn.

its that last bit, in pnp you only get to make a bonus action weapon attack if your standard action was used to make a weapon attack, you cant do other action types and then bonus action attack. That's the remit of specific class abilities.

is it part of 5e that offhand attacks cannot be taken first?

thats actually a fair question, no technically if you declare you're going to attack with both weapons, it doesn't matter if you use the bonus or the standard first. Because you already declared both. Not sure how you'd implement that in BG3 though, other than after using bonus action attack, disabling everything except the attack option...

i liked the flexibility of taking offhand attacks first. i had a dagger that gave bless on hit that i was using in my offhand so i was making offhand attacks first so that my main attack would be blessed.

So long as the only action you can take after attacking with the off hand is attack (i.e. no dash, no casting spells, no using items (all of which SHOULD be actions, not bonus actions)) it'd be fine. Technically Shove should be an option that can replace an attack, but it shouldn't work like it does right now (right now, it too is pretty OP and silly). So shove in theory should also be an option after a bonus action off hand attack.

In pnp, there isn't a concept of "off hand" either though for 5e, you just choose which hand to make your attacks with each turn, and if you have something in the other, you can attack with that once as a bonus action. So in your example, you could opt to attack with the bless dagger first as an action then your other weapon as a bonus action in pnp.

I have to address this first: In 5e there is no "offhand" attack. You can decide what weapon you want to attack with with your main action, and your bonus action is to attack will be with the other weapon. You can basically consider your character to be ambidextrous as it doesn't matter if you attack with your main or off hand, all that matters is what weapon you attacked with first.

With that out of the way, yes, in order to make a bonus action attack because you are wielding two weapons, your Action must have been to perform an attack:

Two-Weapon Fighting

When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.

If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.

Rogues are missing uncanny dodge and expertise among others. Two weapon fighting is poorly implemented as is in 5E and weak with feats. The designers even went on record admitting it should simply be part of the attack action.