Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Prologue Burnout: can we skip it please?

Unless there are plans to add a lot of content to this section it would be helpful if we could bypass it after the first play through and go straight to the crash site.

Especially in an EA release where the focus is testing and rolling new toons to replay the early chapters. It's becoming a real time sink, even if spacing through dialog and cutscenes, and I'm already feeling burnt by it after the first week.

There isn't any significant branching in this area. Only one conversation of consequence that changes based on char class/background/attributes (the brain surgery convo) and no exploration since the prologue is entirely linear. I'm happy to replay it a dozen times if there's enough content added for that to make sense, but otherwise let us skip.

This is a good QoL feature for the final release as well. Skipping the Irenicus prologue was like the first weidu Mod I downloaded for BG2. The prologue isn't nearly as long in BG3, but still fatigue inducing after the first few runs. In BG1 you could skip Candelkeep pretty easily just by speaking to Gorion and advancing to the Sarevok cutscene immediately. BG3 should use a similar approach.

I really love the prologue, but after the third or fourth run, it's tedius and I just want to advance to the material plane.

This would help I think for the early level cap at 4 too, if you could just head to the beach and start there with zero XP if desired. The only story item of note in the prologue is the onyx stone, which could just be added to the starting inventory.

+1

Even when we can bug out and jump through the wall into the final room, it's still tedious to go through it every time.

+1

Yes please. Replaying the prologue over and over is starting to get in the way of making new characters.

+1 while i understand the importance of testing the full game, id also think it would be nice to have a an option to jump right to the beach to get things rolling sooner

Right now the first level of the game on the Nautiloid serves as both a Prologue (introducing the main story) and as a Tutorial for the new player. I think it succeeds pretty well at the former, but not so much at the latter. So I wanted to see if we can get a discussion going specifically about the tutorial aspect and how it might be improved.

My first thought was that it might actually be advantageous to separate the Tutorial from the Prologue entirely, so that the Tutorial can be much more expansive or generic without burdening the main game's Prologue overmuch. Instead of something that happens in-story, a tutorial could be launched from the main menu as a general primer not just for BG3 but also for D&D more generally. You know for players who might not be totally familiar already. Something story adjacent, to use that horrid buzzword. A low stakes arena just to get the job done. The current prologue teaches you how to do the absolute basics, which is fine. Many people will have played enough games with similar features that they can dive in with no tutorial, and just need to be shown where the buttons are. Others I think might really benefit from something much more step by step.

I know that this is a big ask, but how about a tutorial that is actually presented as its own thing? Not directly connected to the main campaign, but which plays out over the course of a few little chapters, mini levels or tasks, which when completed will have introduced the entire User Interface to the player. This doesn't need to be voice acted, it could be simple text, and it could use stock characters rather than custom ones so its faster, but meant to showcase all the many things. Maybe 4 archetypal character classes warrior, wizard, priest and rogue? Just spitballing but the main game tabs I think should each get there own treatment, segmented in some way so that each gets an exposition going in order. Character Sheet, Equipment, Inventory, Spells, Journal etc. All the UI elements in turn. Portraits showing leadership position, how to chain/unchain characters, health experience or active effects (say from spells and the like) how to tell what's going on with the character from the portrait view or char sheet. Basically a tutorial mode that is more cordoned off and really tutors the whole way, driving it home, doesn't quit until everything have been given some treatment. Highlighting all the basic menus and essential mechanics, explaining in detail how to do all the standard actions. Prepare Spells. Rest. Barter. Combat Surfaces etc etc. Each with pop up guides and step by steps. I think it would be simpler to do as a stand alone quest, rather than as part of the main story arch trying to squeeze it all into the prologue. Nothing too fancy story-wise, it could be more the generic tropes or even comic or self effacing, since it's just an excuse to give the UI its own full treatment in a one-off mini-quest type tutorial. 

It would be amusing for fan service if the Tutorial ended in a library, with "Tutorial Team" picking up a tome written by Volo... You know the one about the famous Mind Flaying of Baldur's Gate hehe, and when you crack open the book, boom - the Prologue.


But set up aside, which things would be good to have in a tutorial that aren't there currently?


Just using my archetype shorthand maybe something like...

Warrior: how to equip and toggle weapons, dual wield, shove, pin, second wind, rally and the like
Wizard: how to cast from scroll or write magic, prepare spells, summon, hotbar
Rogue: how to unchain from group, sneak, dash, backstab, steal, barter
Priest: how to help, heal, consume portions, cast water on a surface, revive, rest

Again not too fancy, there's overlap, but just getting a group of 4 together, to show how things work there in some basic set up. Maybe a tavern brawl? I don't care, could be anywhere. But how to select party members from the group or use various tabs to select them or get information about the party. Level Up. I don't need it to knock my socks off, just show me how everything is done, what's where, how its organized. How to understand the tabs/icons/menu's on the screen even if I've never played D&D before. This would be a really easy place to set up a kind of arena of classic tropes to show us the ropes. If that makes sense. Everything from how to light a torch, to straight up raising the dead.  Just run through the gauntlet once, so every feature gets a little spotlight. This could of course all be done in the prologue too or at the crash site and geared around the protagonist, but then it would really diminish the pacing and probably drag on too long. I just think it might be simpler to pull off with a more generic presentation and 4 ready-mades, where we just go step by step.



Another approach, more involved, is to just make the Nautiloid in Hell tutorial a much more expansive tutorial. One that features a throw away rogue or spellcaster. They don't need to survive the crash. Or hell it could just be Gale or Shadowheart without breaking continuity with their intros on the beach, since they both already acknowledge seeing you "On the ship." Gale could just be on the ship instead of random warp point salutations. Doesn't have to be all chummy about it, it could be handled like Lae'zel 'no time to explain' style. This makes at least as much sense as meeting everyone on the beach, except here you could have clear reasons to immediately run into 3 people.

Us is fun, but doesn't teach us much. Maybe if Us was actually a rogue? I wish the standard party was larger than 4, because then you don't need to account for Charname's abilities, but even limited to 3 companions you could still make it work. In fact that would just teach the player how to reform their party (via conversation) in the Tutorial section, which would also be useful to know.

I can't tell you how many things I didn't even know were a thing, or how to do them, until I got well into the Goblin's camp during the first playthrough. I'd prefer that the tutorial didn't extent beyond the Nautiloid, but there's not enough going on in the Nautiloid prologue for the player to see everything they might need to consider themselves well and fully tutored. It should probably be the last thing out of EA, and maybe not the highest priority right now, since some stuff could be subject to change, but I really who love to see a tutorial that pulls out all the stops.

At the end of the tutorial, if player elects to do it, they shouldn't get experience but instead be able to buy their starting equipment. I think that would be a nice touch, without breaking the xp scale of the opening act.

But most importantly, we should be able to skip it entirely once we're done! If we want to haha

Honestly, it really doesn't need to be part of the main campaign, which is why I kinda liked the idea of separating it off a bit more with its own launch, another button in addition to New Game, Continue, Load game. Anyhow, that's what I was thinking just now, after playing the escape from the Nautiloid ship for like the 20th time. Lets make the Tutorial it's own thing, separate from the main game, and players who wish to bypass can just begin at the Cutscene Crash on the Beach.

best
Elk

i can be on the beach and walking in about 7 minutes, its not brutal if you wanna just bomb through it. Im not saying I dont get it, but its also not that bad.

probably in the full release.

This is precisely why I did two 30-ish hour playthroughs and I'll only be doing additional playthroughs when substantial patches hit. I really didn't want to get burned out on the game before it even released.
I don't have an issue with the length of the prologue, but that's likely because I've only done it twice. Take a break.

I guess it depends on how much you restart haha. Im 200+ hours in and have done it 5 times so about 35 minutes out of 12,000

Yeah got a quick bomb route, but its still a time sink.

I just think it would be cooler if it was way more expansive in terms of what it teaches, and options to kit out at the start. And skip if desired. I think a tutorial should look a little more like Candlekeep for lvl1, whereas Nautiloid feels more like Irenicus' Dungeon straight into it. But if going that route, then least BG2 dungeon crawl opener had a lot going on with traps and treasure. I like the Nautiloid set up for the story launch, its cool. But even now, where cutscene kind of implies (or at least allows) the PC to imagine they were swooped up in that attack off the street. It would be nice to have a starting equipment purchase, using the haul from the tutorial or some lower amount if skipping through.

Main idea for Prologue tutorial on the Nautiloid would be to introduce at least rogue and spellcaster type. Lae'zel has fighter covered, she basically yells at you to "go get them!" But for tutorial purpose if she showcases warrior it should highlight and show you how to use her class. Lighting up the shove button with a one liner, dipping into the flames, throwing something. Then do the same for a rogue, and spellcaster, to clue in the basic menu's and moves. I think Us Brain could work as rogue kit, since the brain maybe got yanked from someone nice and shifty. But you don't get the spellcasting breakdown unless charname is it, and even then only through experiment. Its not a directed tutorial like it might be, if you run into Gale and he's doing some crazy ass something. Tutorial showing how to handle basic casting, before he gets knocked off the screen in one way or another. Its not like we need to carry the whole crew of 4 the whole time in the Prologue, but it could cycle the other main char types after brawler, cutthroat and caster! Just so the full UI gets a break down. I think the Nautiloid could handle maybe 2 more encounters on the main deck, or stairwells to suss it out.

Started 3rd playthrough and after the crash ran around a bit and quit. F it. I covered just about every inch of content with a number of alt quest paths in the first 2 runs so at this point the whole thing to me feels like a prologue. Also i am level capped so trying out different classes is really limited.

I’m waiting for the next big content patch, or a level bump patch since I made sure to save game when I hit cap so if they ever bump the level I would just replay from that point on.

Yeah I'm fairly close to putting it back on the shelf for a few months, or at least until more content is patched in. I think capping at LvL 4 with only 4 party members is very limiting for replay. Right now there's only enough content/companions in EA to really support 2 full playthroughs in my view. Basically 2 main paths, the Goblin path or the Druid path, and really enough companions to support 3 party compositions for a run (which will have overlap with at least 1 companion each time.) So maybe enough to keep it going for a month more I'd guess before people start tapping out? Hopefully they start dropping more content reasonably soon, so it doesn't lose too much momentum.

Also I'm just curious, I've heard many people describe EA as "Act I"
Does anyone know where this came from?

Baldur's Gate and Shadows of Amn each had a Prologue and 7 Chapters.

For example in BG1 it was...

Prologue: Candlekeep

Chapter 1: Coast Way to Friendly Arm Inn and Beregost
Chapter 2: Nashkell and the Mines

Chapter 3: Bandit Camp
Chapter 4: Cloakwood and Cloakwood Mines

Chapter 5: City of Baldur's Gate
Chapter 6: Return to Candlekeep

Chapter 7: Final Fight with Sarevok


For a comparison I think what we have in EA is basically analogous to the end of Chapter 2 in the Original. In BG1 you had your first dream and gained initial Bhaalspawn ability after reaching Nashkell and sleeping. Following the Kobolds into the mine was the first major Dungeon. Sure you could do many more things via exploration or if gunning for Gnolls, but if you followed the story beats as presented I mean.

I think it was possible to get quite a bit of replay out of the first 2 chapters of BG at lower levels, but that also had to do with variety in Party composition and char creation options.

With just the first 5 classes in EA you'd think, alright 5 playthroughs, but I don't know if it holds up as well. Cause like how different is my Mage PC really going to feel from just using Gale? or am I really going to see a ton of new stuff if switching out PC thief for Astarion, PC cleric for Shadowheart? Class progression isn't as distinct at lower lvls, so I think it feels more "been there, done that" a bit sooner. Hopefully more classes and companions hit soon, or at least for lvl up Xmas.

I dont get it ... it can be rushed by less than 10 mintues. O_o
Is that so much?

It's so little you need to do in it, almost no valuable gear. I just rush through, talk to Shadowheart, then run though the final battle.
Very quickly done. Done it at least 10 times now I think.

Hol' up. What Onyx stone?

i agree with alot of the points you made in your post and i think its also important to remind folks that while there was a time sensitive aspect to your journey to nashkel, depending on who was in your party, you largely could travel/explore/adventure throughout the whole world map at your own pace once Gorion got popped - there were no 'act maps' that the player got locked out of once you progressed the story/narrative to a certain point.

for bg3 i hope larian moves away from how they did act maps in the dos series and allow players to adventure back to the druid grove or the ruins even once the player progress past the act 1 climax in case you missed or want to revisit (re-recruit) any characters from the first act bc locking out act maps (in addition to companions, but thats another thread topic) seems overly restrictive even when considering the narrative/story elements, atleast from what ive seen of ea

Love the game - well, love the game, but soooo sick of the Tutorial! Why no tick box after say 10 hours gameplay to allow players to skip past when they replay with other characters?

Would love to do another replay, but -ing hate having to redo the -ing tutorial first. I know how to play already. I do not need to keep doing it when I try playing a different character. Complete waste of time second/third/tenth time around. Just give players the option to skip it. If it were possible to delete the tutorial files I'd have done that to never see it again. Completely dissuades replaying. At least when on beach I have a choice on how to start and where to go first. The tutorial has no benefit. You keep nothing that you 'loot-goblin' so what it the point.

Please LARIAN, a choice to skip the Tutoral! If you are worried everyone will skip past on first playthrough, add a check of hours played before letting us choose. For now, have decided what the other character details will be and won't bother the replaying till there's an option to skip the tutorial (a shame that switching off tutorials in Options doesn't affect the Nauteloid ship portion).

PS: The tutorial has a tight storyline flow and set dimensions. Bug checking it should have been 100% covered in week one.

+ 1 heh good idea for a mod ..

Yeah I was being pretty generous calling the onyx stone a story item of note. Its just a regular onyx stone, though the item does mention Shar in its generic description and its found in the lockedbox in the room where Shadowheart is being held. So who knows, maybe it does something later on? Lol

To me it doesn't matter if the prologue takes 7 minutes or 10 to bomb through (in BG1 you could skip past Candlekeep in like 7-10 seconds) the more salient point for me is that as a tutorial it just doesn't cover all that much. I kept waiting during the race to connect the nodes on the transponder for the tutorial to highlight 'Dash' and explain it. Or in the first battle with the imps to explain Shove or Pin etc. When to do stuff and why, describing in detail the difference between an attack and an action or a bonus action. Or what hide or dip does how to use it. Or as a spellcaster, to get some detail on that UI or the hotbar. More general stuff like chained/unchained movement in the party (even if I'm not a huge fan of that system it should be explained.) Inventory, Send item or Barter. How to light a torch. All that stuff is just kind of left for the player to figure out.

I suppose I'm making 2 parallel points. The first is that it would be convenient to skip the prologue (regardless of how much I migjt enjoy it the first couple times, and I do) but to just play the cutscenes and skip to the beach if desired.

The second point is that its pretty light right now as a tutorial. It fails to cover a lot of key info that the new player might find helpful, and it doesn't provide much variety or detail if you're playing one class as opposed to another class say.

Also I miss purchasing/equipping my PC's right after char creation, which is something that could precede the prologue.

Anyhow, hopefully it gets fleshed out a bit more, with an option to bypass eventually. I'm sure its a simple mod, but I think it would be better built in.

just some theorycrafting -

i think if larian introduced a mini prelude to the actual event or scenario that has you scooped up by the mindflayers then that could be a good opportunity to introduce some tutorial like mechanics, like dialogue rolls, movement, camera control, and trading, and also answer some questions regarding what your character was doing before they got thrown in the mindflayer pod - i envision that as a player you create your pc (not your dreamer quite yet tho), after which there is some minor narrative dialogue/power point like slides related bringing the player up to speed on the world of FR/BG (like the recent avernus debacle and what the dukes have been doing in response, etc) and using your selected character background to make the prelude more personal along the lines of youre a soldier returning to baldurs gate, or you are a sage traveling from candlekeep to the gate, etc. (obviously more 'out there' character concepts would need to be more finely tuned) but in such a mini prelude you would then get a really limited snapshot/tutorial of BG (or yartar or wherever you get picked up) that would give you a chance to also purchase your starting equipment.

im envisioning you dialogue your way through BG front entrance flaming fist, have some opportunities for some minor dialogue with some BG refugees to give some added FR atmosphere, you get to talk to merchants/quartermasters at the front gate area where you can select/modify your starting gear, and once that merchant dialogue ends the mindflayers attack and you go from there and create your dreamer once the trailer gets back to the tadpole administration moment - i think it would be an easier phase in that jumping right into battling imps and mindflayers in the seven hells

(also tangential, but i would think that a lvl 1 character would have a much harder time battling imps in hell on a planar spaceship - unless the devils are in on it? but that theorycrafting gets into larians plot that we dont know the full details of as of yet)