Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Devs, you should check out Solasta[5e indie game]

One thing I can nitpick Solasta on is like inventory management between players, the inventory is on the far right and the avatars the far left. So it is click-drag all the way across to the avatar you want to move it to and if you are doing wholesale changes you think to yourself, it would be nice their avatars were right to the side of the inventory.

They also need to hotkey their Stealh Mode, should be Control as that is default for most games. Otherwise while moving you have to click lower center.

Sounds like a lot of Solasta talk but it shows that each game while imperfect can tweak what they have. As said I hope both games come out better because of EA, it's like sort of the main idea behind it.

There's a reason why Larian puts their games out for early access - it's because they want feedback.

Larian has advertised that they've been making a game based on D&D 5e for at least a year. However, it seems clear that they're concerned that people won't find it fun, and so they made a lot of arbitrary changes to the rules. Pointing to another game that follows 5e, and did not make such changes to combat and saying "the combat in that game is better than in your game" is feedback.

I liked and played D:OS 1 and D:OS 2. I've played BG 3 in EA and Solasta in EA, and while the roleplaying elements, graphics, and world of BG 3 are superior to Solasta, the combat in BG 3 isn't as fun as Solasta's, and it is largely because of the rule changes Larian made which are fighting with the rest of the rules.

Larian has been saying that the full game is out for release in a year. Now is exactly the time to experiment with changes. A lot of people are saying, "this small game from a 17-person team using the same ruleset has better-feeling combat". If I was a developer, that's something which I would take note of.

I think it's great that both of these titles are in EA at the same time.

The more I read the more I'm tempted to try out Solasta. I watched some videos and found the voiceovers and graphics painful but it looked like you could actually move your party into position, you could have a 6 person party and you still had the cool tabletop experience of doing things like pushing a boulder to collapse a bridge.

Edit, agreed with @stabbey if people are finding Solasta's combat fun that this important feedback. It don't like the way the HP bloat diminishes crowd control and how the lowering of AC makes the cleric cantrips useless.

If I worked on Solasta I'd actually dump the realistic graphics and maybe full voiceover and go for an artistic approach akin to games like PoE and Bastion, so that the budget becomes a smaller problem.

But the combat is spot on, is like an almost 100% translation of the books. You can do there pretty much everything you would be able to do on tabletop.

Except that they are SPECIFICALLY asking for our feedback. This is EXACTLY why we are even in early access. Both games will likely borrow off of eachother. They would both be smart to do so.

Agree with both @Stabbey and @KillerRabbit. You guys are doing a great job of voicing my own views so I don't need to repeat them.

Just suffice it to say that even though I generally hate TB combat, I enthusiastically backed Solasta as soon as it was announced and have been very supportive of that game on their forum.

For me, the two are different and have different pros and cons.

Things I like about BG3:
> Looks lovely (except for elf faces)
> excellent visual fidelity
> good voice acting
> decent writing (i cant say more than that as to me, the very premise of the game should be for much higher level characters)
> excellent setting (forgotten realms is my favourite)
> access to full suite of D&D options (not that they'll all be implemented, but right now, there is hope for certain things)
> multiplayer (more for the potential to do proper D&D style games with the game and friends... if it gets closer to D&D)

Things I dont like about BG3:
> It's combat (I dislike changes to action economy, i find a lot of the combat controls clunky)
> Larians messing with a lot of core D&D 5e rules they had no need to mess with, stuff like action types, movement options, scroll use etc (by now most of them have been voiced many times)
> the companions (I just don't find them likeable)
> Origin characters (links to companions, but making them all special snowflakes just means it's harder to see how custom character will be special and also shows a similar issue to D:OS2)
> world interaction (feels awkward)
> excessive loot (just makes it not feel valuable),
> UI (it's absolutely rubbish, nothing is very clear, everything feels small and awkward and whilst it doesn't take up much space, it could be much better.)
> Party controls (I didn't like them D:OS2, I don't like them here).
> Party not interacting with dialogues (and typically standing around totally unanimated in the background despite events
> Main character animations in dialogues, just feel weird tbh, like the creepy grins and stuff they do look like they belong in a sims game
> % based attack changes and weirdly calculated DCs in dialogues (don't subtract bonuses from the DC, show me the DC and show me a dice roll plus my bonus, ideally show me bonus before the dice roll)
> All the surfaces and their implementation, I HATE auto damage surfaces and their abundance... if they required a save for half or none (depending on the surface I guess) it would be better.

Things I like about Solasta:
> It's UI, whilst it isn't all textured and pretty, it's super functional and clear and easy to use. I feel like most information I need is where I'd want.
> It's combat, i feel like it plays smoothly and is very good, implementation of reactions etc is perfect, honestly this is where Solasta really hammers BG3 for me the most
> Sticks pretty closely to D&D 5e rules (although im not sure about their change to lighting rules)
> More grounded beginnings with hints that the main game will escalate
> Approach to party inclusion of dialogue (though the actual dialogue quality... not so much)
> Party controls, really, they're excellent, you can drag select them, select them individually etc, they move around nicely and interact with environment automatically)
> Environment interaction, feels really intuitive
> character creation options (dice rolling vs points buy vs even free points setting, which means some people will cheat, but also means I can make my pnp party using their exact rolled stats, which is a big win)
> full suite of D&D coins, it's rare to see and quite fun to see tbh
> character traits linked to background and alignment, really nice way to add dialogue options and also personality to the dialogue.

Things I dont like about Solasta:
> Cinematic Dialogues, the graphics are acceptable for isometric view, they aren't spectacular, but they aren't terrible... however in dialogue the models and animations aren't up to par so cinematic dialogue detracts a lot
> Writing quality, the actual quality of the dialogues is um.. not so great and the general flow of some dialogue feels weird
> Lack of full D&D options, just a result of their license only covering SRD... would be great if wizards saw their progress and made some kind of deal with them
> Balance, their custom subraces seem typically flat out better than SRD ones, similar issue with their custom class archetypes and feats, also with backgrounds
> Won't have multiclassing (they try to make up for it a bit through custom backgrounds and feats I guess though)
> Voice acting, just isn't as good, and is quite limited
> character creation visual customisation, character models look pretty ugly, but there also aren't many options.
> camera controls (they're really quite painfully bad)



Do I think either game is perfect?
Nope! And they both could learn a thing from eachother.

Do I think Solasta is better than BG3?
No, I like things about both, and dislike things about both, I will say that what I've played of Solasta so far, I've been more impressed with.

Do I think both will improve on their flaws?
Hopefully! For me, BG3 has more flaws, however Solasta has a much smaller team, so their flaws will be harder to overcome.

Will I play both?
Yes I think so, I bought early access for both, I'm not playing either early access with the intention of finishing all the content in them, I tend to try different things in a fairly small part of the game, and watch other people play things online


Ultimately, for me in an ideal world I'd have a game that combined BG3 setting, full D&D ruleset access, visuals and voice acting, with Solasta combat, UI, Party controls and world interaction. Ideally it's story would start off a bit smaller before building to BG3 intro and then continuing past it. Obviously, that won't happen, so I'll take what I can get from both and hope the negatives of each aren't enough to make me stop playing them!

Honestly I hope that both studios steal good ideas from each other!

4 flagons of your finest donkey piss please!

That's why I made this post. I hope they do.

blindhamster's post is way more detailed than I have the patience to produce. I agree with at least 75% of the details and the bottom line. The two games are apples and oranges. Yeah they're both fruit (DnD 5e), but way different in scope style, etc. Could they borrow from each other and both be better? Maybe. But to compare the two is can only come down to subjective taste.

Not actually, they are more like two kinds of apple.
There is nothing subjective about about better combat being a good thing. Solasta adresses most of the negative feedback about BG3's combat.

Never even heard of Solasta till now, just like i'm sure their are other games from small developers I don't even know about. I also think majority of people have never heard of the developer or this game Solasta. Yet of course like any game it will have followers and people who play it.

The party is made up of four (custom) characters in Solasta. I think this is probably because 4 player party has been standard/average in DnD since... 3rd Edition. (Checks: To be more precise, 5e is designed for 3-5, but yeah.) So all the published modules are designed around that ideal. Standard 6 player parties are a thing of the past.

Z.

P.S. I still love BG3. Solasta is great too. I am very happy to have two cakes!

I think both games could learn from some mechanics from each other, but I do not think you could compare both. Not only because of the budget but because they have a fundamentally different game conception:
BG3 has a lot of exploration but it´s a story-driven game. Solasta is more of a 5e dungeon crawler where you create your entire party yourself.

To make a comparison, one is Baldur´s gate, the other is Icewind Dale. You can pick things from each other about UI, combat, etc, but they require a different approach to everything else.

If the existence of this game is news from any RPG fan, I encourage you to check it. It´s a entertaining indie game (with the usual flaws of an indie game made by 17 people) and you can feel the devs of tactical adventures really care about the game.

Interesting so are the extra two here followers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeG11CsZuNw

Granted I just clicked around and didn't watch begging to end. Around 16:00 you see 6 slots for party but only 4 portraits . . .

I don't think it's fair to compare Solasta to Icewind Dale actually. It's closer to BG2 in terms of party banter and discussion.

In fact, having played more Solasta, im continually impressed with the approach to party dialogue. Whilst the actual voice acting isn't as good as BG3, the backgrounds for each character and the personality traits chosen result in unique options and dialogue for each character... which is frankly better than BG3 manages - remembering that BG3 doesn't have any true NPCs, it has a bunch of player options that double up as non-editable PCs with set (always the same) stories. The inter-party dialogue as your progress with Solasta definitely makes me feel far more like I'm playing a tabletop game with actual people than BG3 has managed to do.

BG3 has better player to NPC dialogue. But Solasta does a much better job of inter-party. It's a majority dungeon crawler (which BG1 was as well tbh) with a relatively linear story path though.



To be fair, it was a game that got kickstartered (much like the original sin games), but has an even smaller team (just 17 people), as far as "the majority of people never heard of Solasta" I doubt that's true even now, chances are that a good proportion of people interested in D&D based RPGs were aware of Solasta, not all clearly, but probably a good proportion, and if they weren't there's a good chance they will be quickly as many people are going to compare the two D&D5e Early access games that came out and will probably release at similar times. Also seems like both studios are aware and promoting eachother a bit too based on twitter and forums.



You make 4 PCs, pretty standard D&D 5e character creation with the addition of you getting casual, formal or slang speech style based on backgrounds (actually changes dialogues) and personality traits based on alignment and background, so each of the 4 PCs has more "built in" personality than many games, that said, you lose the ability to choose multiple dialogue options for a single character in favour of each character potentially being able to approach the same situation in multiple ways based on personality and skills.

When you get 2 NPC companions, you control them, but dont level them up etc, their two portraits show as mini ones below the main 4.




I agree with this sentiment, you can definitely compare them, they're both ultimately games trying to do the same thing (create a CRPG based on D&D 5e ruleset with a party of 4 characters). The actual story may be different but they're so close in terms of what they are they can absolutely be compared,

As far as comparing them goes... These are purely my views, Arrow points from best to worst ( x is better than y would be X > Y)

GRAPHICS AND VISUALS
Environment Visuals
BG > Solasta
Character Visuals
BG > Solasta
UI
BG < Solasta
Cutscenes
BG > Solasta
Camera Controls
BG = Solasta

for me, BG wins on visuals overal, but notably, I much prefer Solasta UI and UX.

SOUND
Voice acting
BG > Solasta
Music
BG > Solasta

easy win for BG on sound

STORY
Setting
BG > Solasta
Main Dialogue
BG > Solasta
Party Dialogue
BG < Solasta
Dialogue options
BG > Solasta
Story Pacing
BG = Solasta

BG wins again

GAMEPLAY
Following D&D Rules
BG < Solasta
D&D Mechanics changes
BG < Solasta
Combat fluidity
BG < Solasta
Encounter design
BG = Solasta
Environment control
BG < Solasta
Party Control
BG < Solasta
Current Game Balance
BG = Solasta
Ease of play
BG < Solasta
Combat Feedback
BG < Solasta
Combat tooltops
BG > Solasta

Solasta absolutely destroys BG3 here for me.

CHARACTER
Character Visual Customisation
BG > Solasta
Character Personality Customisation
BG < Solasta
Character mechanics customisation
BG < Solasta
Character sound customisation
BG = Solasta
Character sound quality
BG > Solasta
Race Selection
BG > Solasta
Class Selection
BG = Solasta
Background Selection
BG < Solasta

Character side is about equal tbh.


Note... obviously a lot of the above will cahnge over time.

Having tried out both, I much prefer Solasta's combat mechanics to BG3. It felt less clunky and gimicky (which is something Larian seems to enjoy doing in all their games). Fights were generally fairly balanced without having to rely on always needing advantage/cheesy tactics in order to win. BG3 is obviously much prettier, and has the advantage of a bigger studio with a much larger budget. Chargen in Solasta feels much better though, and I felt like I could make the character I really wanted to play, rather than a rubber-stamped version of that class. Hopefully BG3 will allow for rolling stats eventually, rather than using the "standard array", which annoys the hell out of me due to its max cap of 15.

I definitely vastly prefer seeing the actual die rolls to just "hit" or "miss" and having to check the combat log for the numbers. I also like the fact that mousing over a target will tell me if I have advantage or disadvantage, and for what reason (unlit/low light, high ground, etc).

Personally, I don't think the graphics are bad, or "painfully horrible" as some people have said -- I think those people might be a WEE bit spoiled, and probably haven't been gaming long enough to remember early game graphics like EQ before the model update, or Asheron's Call.

The story so far is EXTREMELY linear, which is disappointing, but hopefully once they've added more and more stuff you'll be able to wander all over the big world map wherever you want, which would make it very cool.

Plus, you start out as a random group meeting up in a tavern. You can't beat that.

Solasta is more a tactical combat game with 5e and story, while BG3 is a fantasy story with 5e and combat tactics. Both doing more or less a little homebrewing.

Its like "Fallout Tactics" <-> "Fallout 2"

or maybe "Icewind Dale" <-> "Baldurs Gate 2"

Solasta is not bad, its also fun, but totally different game compared to bg3 which is super immersive!
Solasta feels like doing a pen & paper round. A bit generic, but also tactical freedom and less story driven.

what I totally like about Solasta is the possibility to build your own party!

And what I totally like about BG3 is the world building, all the little details and the sheer amount of things to do and to discover. I think I started my 10th playthrough and am still discovering new things in ACT I!! thats is the highest variety I have ever witnessed in Gaming.