Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Persuasion Roll +6, rolled a 4.

This is a in game math issue maybe. I did a persuasion check with +2 proficiency and +4 charisma for total of 6 bonus. I rolled a 4 on the die roll. Not sure how that is possible. Any Ideas?

At the moment your proficiency being excluded from difficulty in advance instead of added to the die roll. People already asking Larian to reverse it as it supposed to be with proficiency bonus written near the die.

I guess I don't understand. Did they state a reason? What's the point of proficiency in a skill if it is not added to the roll?

Because its subtracted from what you need to roll. instead of say needing a 14 and adding 4, you need a 10 and just roll. its not right and unintuitive...

It is added - the roll takes the bonus into account, and shows you what you need to roll to succeed, rather then actual DC.

So if OP was rolling against DC of 16 with +6 bonus, it will show DC of 10 and just roll d20.

I think the boon is that you just immediately know what you want to get when rolling. The disadvantage is, that it doesn’t communicate your modifiers to the check.. which I think is important.

No one stated anything. You still get effect from your proficiency. They just got the formula reversed:
Success if x>y-z
Instead of
Success if x+z>y
Mathematically it's all the same. Cosmetically it's confusing, yes.

It is confusing for those familiar with 5e mechanics. . .But it does have a certain logic to it that appeals to me. The better you are at something, the easier it is to accomplish. So if the thing you are doing is of normal (10) difficulty, but you have proficiency (+2) and you are possess an incrtedible natural affinity toward that sort of thing anyway (+4), it is no longer a normal task (10) but an easy one (4). All of that tracks with itself. It is a deviation from 5e which really don't bother me. it also may prevent one of the issues with 3e in which target numbers became meaningless after awhile. If 5 is easy, 10 is normal, 15 is moderate and 20 is hard, what the hell is 44? Or 65? Which were numbers you would actually have to hit sometimes well before level 20. If Larian's interpretation works, then that number escalation may be deflated so that the majority of challenges stay within that 0-20 scale.

However. . .The third trap in the Zhent hideout required an 18 perception to hit, even with the +2 proficiency bonus I had, +2 for wisdom, and +(1-4) for guidance. So I may not only be too optimistic in my appraisal but perhaps even entirely wrong.

Yeah it's all the same mathematically. The rules haven't actually changed. It's just presented to the player a different way. Which makes it confusing for 5e players, but less confusing for everyone else. I wouldn't mind them changing this, but I won't be too upset if they don't.

I believe that the entire point of presenting the roll this way was to simplify it for the player and make it more intuitive. Judging by the number of times this confusion has come up though, it's safe to say that did not work.

Larian should offer the option to display the dice rolls in an advanced style, showing two dice when there is Advantage or Disadvantage, showing a d4 if Guidance is active, and showing the actual DC, and adding the modifier after the roll. (Then allowing Bardic Inspiration to be spent, if applicable.)

Or at the very least make it crystal clear in the log. But I would prefer it to be more clear in both. When you hover over dialog options, it does a good job of showing you what SOME of the bonuses are...the next screen that shows what you need to roll should explain how it got to that DC.

I did discover one cool thing. If you actually mouse over the part where it shows your target number, a box pops up that shows the actual DC and your bonuses.

Yeah I don't like how the dice rolls are presented currently

They've missed a beat, in not quite understanding that for many players, seeing their numbers add up to bigger numbers is a small but relevant part of playing a dice-rolling game. Seeing on the surface that same d20 every time, with a flat number, against a low target number is not, for many (possibly most) gamers, as satisfying as seeing the die roll, plus their bonuses, for a bigger number, beating a higher overall target.

This sounds like something that should be in display options. If you prefer it to be one way just set it up.

Indeed. I doubt that it would require much resources and effort from Larian to add such an option to the game.

I think the numbers are just wrong here.
The Target is 15 and you ass up bonusses totalling +8 (+3 for Charisma 16, +2 for Proficiency and + 3 from Guidance I guess),
So your target displayed should not be 9, but 7 (i,e, 15 minus you bonusses).
Or am I missing something?

Yes it doesn't add up. If you had a disadvantage, the target number should be 11. So I don't see how they get this 9.

I don’t know the system, but perhaps some bonuses don’t stack? (Like proficiency and guidance.., whatever guidance is, that would give +3 and +3)

Bonuses of the same type (Dodge, Magical, Racial, and so on) generally used not to stack, but in 5e this seems to have been changed. Unless it is two spells or items of the same description, bonuses generally stack.

Proficiency stacks with just about everything. Guidance is a divine spell that grants +1d4 to non-combat skill checks.

So basically Larian is saying we take care of the math, what you roll has to match the number displayed, good luck.

This is ok gameplay wise but it doesn't present DnD mechanics well in the overall presentation of the roll happening.

Being able to see the dice and getting that excitement that comes from it, plus the modifier displayed would be great.
So we can be in awe of the huge big massive 38 that was rolled and just how smooth things should go accordingly. Instead of having a simple "Bing! - you win/loose" it amounts to now.

So some DnD charm is lost with this solution

It's pretty streamlined and effective though in telling the player what is happening but not so well in telling the player about how the roll came to be.