Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Amazing surface effects

Now imagine the potential of BG3 if surfaces were treated like "tactical choices" instead of "fun addition" to the game

Well, you are absolutely wrong.

Surfaces currently apply in addition to direct damage, they are created even on a miss, they deal automatic damage without a save, the extra damage far exceeds the listed damage of the spells, items or cantrips, they are far too common, appearing in a great many - if not almost every - fights, they replace or nullify the existence of certain spells and cantrips which specifically create surfaces. They make Concentration spells far more likely to fail than is intended and the extra damage is a problem because player HP hasn't been compensated. Also, see my response to the quote below.

"I like it" has no substance and is subjective. The opinion of someone who offers specific reasons should outweigh that of someone who can only offer "I like it" as an reason.




That was cool. However, D:OS and D:OS 2 games are balanced around the idea that each fight is challenging, and that players are expected to be at full resources (health, spells) for every battle. Baldur's Gate 3 is using the D&D 5e rules. Those rules are based around attrition, and the idea of players having more limited resources and being worn down over time.

Surfaces deal extra unavoidable damage to health. Additional sources of damage forcing Constitution saving throws to maintain concentration increase the changes of failing those and losing the spell and spell slot resource. You cannot just drop in mechanics designed for players to be fully charged and healed in each encounter into a game based on attrition. The mechanics work against each other.

There is a place for surfaces, but not this frequent, not in this state, and not without ways and chances to avoid the damage.




I haven't used them either. Enemies will, though, through any barrels lying around, or through the many projectiles and magic arrows they've got.

Interactions with environment are good - both for combat and exploring.

However, BG3 uses different combat engine, and I don’t think it should straight up adapt D:OS surfaces. Let me explain.

D:OS surface system was really good. RPG combat always revolved around status effects, buffs/debuffs. Having those being visually presented on map with intuitive and visible representation, with clear combos and counter - I think that is a big part of D:OS appeal. BG3 already uses DnD systems - giving it D:OS-like surface effects means adding another set of damage/effects/buffs/debuffs systems on top of existing ones. There are definitely things that can be translated from PnP into more D:OS-like surfaces, but I think Larian needs to be careful here.

I also would question how surfaces work - I read that they work same way as they did in D:OSS - if you stand in them you get hit. That sounds to me, like a bad idea. DND is attribute driven game - whenever your character gets hit, depends on your characters ability to defend/dodge, rather then just their placement. Having surfaces be 100% hit, sounds like something that could break he system and overpower all other mechanics - why make a roll, if you have a guaranteed source of damage?

I love the idea of environment interactivity. I was really happy when I heard Larian talking about it. Swen had a great example of throwing a poison bottle to goblins' drink bowl. Made me kind of think about BotW creative problem solving, with world that has consistent rules that can be used to your advantage.

And I'd like to be wrong, but now it seems it's just surfaces and building advantage towers. Well. Surfaces aren't "organic" environment interaction, it's just the same overpowered tactic to be used again and again. Especially bad that apparently stone is flammable...

I feel like people are overstating the prevalence of surfaces in BG3. Yes, there are some, but they usually tend to be small, and minor in their effect. (Unless you are deliberately blowing up barrels, but that's on you.) The surface nonsense is DRAMATICALLY toned down in comparison with DOS 2. I understand that people don't like them, I myself am ambivalent about them (if they were all removed I certainly wouldn't miss them), but some of the complaints about surfaces border on the hyperbolic. They're just not THAT big of an impact on the game.

So if they are so minor, would not be an issue to remove surface effects from cantrips and remove the special arrow and barrels. If it so minor, no one will miss them if they are gone.

I don't have a problem with that.

They toned down surfaces a lot but they did choices that really altered the experience in many ways.

I.E fire arrows are very common. I think they should be rare and powerfull items instead of nearly basics.
Why don't we have +1 arrows and a little bit less fire arrows ? Ennemies with fire arrows could really become "special" and reserved for more difficult combats. On the other hand, finding fire arrows should be cool, while it's actually not very rewarding.

Same about dipping.
I'd LOVE to find a magical fire or poison sword/dagger/quiver or bow... and I guess I'm not alone... But these very special items players usualy love to find are useless because every common weapons can so easily become magical weapons. On the other hand, we sometimes find very WTF items that add poison to the weapons of the character you just healed and items that deal radiant damages to a few creatures... But if you wear it beasts attacks become "magical" and deal radiant damages to your characters...

About cantrips I guess everything has already been said about balance issues and what we can reasonably fear about the future AoE spells like fireball...

Their choices are cool, but the way they are implemented have many consequences on many things... Items and rewards, immersion, balance, tactical value and so on...

DOS surfaces are so boring that they’ve added armor to negate its effects. That said, BG3 surfaces are even more boring and the way they implemented it add no tactical value whatsoever.

By logic: sitting in a pool of fire do less damage than trying to walk out of it. Seriously?

There’s no reliable damage in the game except condition whereas the rules says that you save for half and now there are reliable source of damage coming from cantrips which combines AoE and DoT. Seriously? Oh, and please add advantage in that cantrip chance to hit increase due to the high ground positioning.

Now, fire arrows & other surface sources like bombs and barrels are even nastier. Feels so cheap that I didn’t touch none of this items. I’d be okay not to use this items and so on, yet now I have to face enemies using that cheese items and breaking my casters concentration.

Yeah, surfaces RAW would pass. The current surfaces are boring as hell

WHAT??? Fucking GOD no! I hope they go for FAR LESS surface effects. It's making me insane how everything is set on fire and everyone slips on everything.