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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Nov 2020
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Found this today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70JkngHRyHU Had no idea FR had novels for the original games written and turned into audiobooks. This is a fun listen and a good story for those familiar with the original BG games or those curious about that story. Enjoy.
Last edited by Bleeblegum; 12/11/20 01:13 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2018
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The books are universally reviled among fans of the games. They are considered to be abominations. 😂
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Reviled or not, they're the official canon for the Realms. The story of Baldur's Gate in the current timeline is based on what happened in those books, not whatever happened in some individual's BG playthrough.
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member
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member
Joined: Jun 2019
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Reviled or not, they're the official canon for the Realms. The story of Baldur's Gate in the current timeline is based on what happened in those books, not whatever happened in some individual's BG playthrough. So the novels are canon over the games? The novels that tried to be different from the games without taking into consideration over whether it should be different? For example, the novel claims that the Iron Throne is a splinter group of the Zhentarim (which explains why Montaron and Xzar answered to Sarevok even though they were Zhentarim agents), as opposed to the game who says the Zhentarim and Iron Throne have no connections whatsoever. But the 3e D&D sourcebook "Lords of Darkness" validates the game's lore about the Zhentarim as canon over the novel's, confirming that the Iron Throne is no splinter group of the Zhentarim or any other organization.
And Baldur's Gate never had a Grand Duke by the name of Angelo (The guy who was a corrupt Flaming Fist officer working for Sarevok in the Baldur's Gate game is a Grand Duke in the novelization), the sourcebook Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast which details the Sword Coast lore a couple years and less before Baldur's Gate confirms there was only Belt, Liia, Eltan and Entar as the Grand Dukes.
In Baldur's Gate 3, there is a mural in the Druid enclave that details the history of the druids in the Sword Coast, who worship Silvanus. The final mural hints the Druids' alliance with the Harpers, which also allude to the fact that Jaheira was a Silvanus worshiping Druid working for the Harpers. In the novelization, Jaheira was NOT a druid who worshiped Silvanus, she worshiped Mielikki, which corresponds to the game's lore, but contradicts what what the novelization has.
The Baldur's Gate novels have many other D&D lore errors that seriously hurts its credibility as "official canon". It's sad, really, I don't understand why people continue to defend the novelizations of the Baldur's Gate series. They butcher not only the personalities of the characters from the games, they also butcher established D&D lore from sourcebooks.
Last edited by BladeDancer; 12/11/20 06:41 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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Reviled or not, they're the official canon for the Realms. The story of Baldur's Gate in the current timeline is based on what happened in those books, not whatever happened in some individual's BG playthrough. Was that true for Baldur's Gate II? Or Throne of Bhaal, or Neverwinter Nights? They never treated the novelizations as canon why should we expect BG:III to? Also BladeDancer appears too modest to but I'm not going to let this opportunity pass to showcase his hard work The Complete Written Chronology of The Forgotten Realms, lovingly annotated by resident loremaster BD
Last edited by Sozz; 12/11/20 07:14 PM.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Nov 2020
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I had no idea they were hated, perhaps why no novel is planned to be associated with this game. But that is a sign that Larian really needs to get their chops up with complex writing that makes sense in the context of the source material. I will continue to listen to this audiobook and see how badly it butchers the game. XD thanks for the warning, I was hoping this would be like from Sarevok's perspective or something, this is definitely weird so far about an hour and a half in.
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addict
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Joined: Oct 2020
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Screen Rant: Okay, the internet wants to know: are those controversial Baldur's Gate novels canon?
Adam Smith: The Baldur's Gate novelizations? I haven't read them, actually, so I guess not! There's a huge amount of D&D novels I have read. They give me information on, say, the Underdark, or the way a deal with the devil might work, or something. Anything we want to put into the game, we can usually find a sourcebook or a novel that's covered it. So we'll go and read that and see if it gives us new ideas, informed our ideas, or changed some ideas.
SR: Okay, the fandom will be pleased. I haven't read them either, but they made some decisions that people really did not like, from my understanding. They flipped some tables.
AS: I think I've heard some of those flipped tables landing, but I wasn't in the vicinity.
SR: The team caught them and fixed them.
AS: (Laughs) We're 100 years later, so we can also say, hey, maybe some people remember these events a bit differently. Maybe they feel like legends and myths to some people. Some people are going to have different ideas about what happened, but we know it through this. (Screen Rant, 2020.02.27)
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Nov 2020
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Yea I assume they want to distance from this unpopular series of books. Honestly don't want them to follow too closely to the original games, Larian should feel free to make their own story with their own characters. I really don't even like fan service like Minsc being an origin but that's me nitpicking a marketing decision. Best to leave those old stories as they were in the games, different for each player.
Thanks for the link.
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addict
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Joined: Oct 2020
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Yea I assume they want to distance from this unpopular series of books. I haven't read those, but I found some list of weird stuff going on in the books when searching for the article... I don't know if it's exaggerated, but... oh gods. I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist. (Just quoting you below, but we should tag datamined things.) I really don't even like fan service like Minsc being an origin but that's me nitpicking a marketing decision. Yeah, me too. I hope the datamining is (somehow) wrong and he's just a temporary companion for a questline. I just don't think they can do the old characters justice, especially one so iconic. 20 years later, different studio... and writing other people's characters is always iffy. Don't get me wrong though, I'll be happy to see Minsc (and Boo!), just not as origin/full companion. Cameos and old characters as NPCs? Yeah. Unless they get Xzar and Montaron treatment or are written out-of-character.
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member
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Joined: Jun 2019
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Reviled or not, they're the official canon for the Realms. The story of Baldur's Gate in the current timeline is based on what happened in those books, not whatever happened in some individual's BG playthrough. Was that true for Baldur's Gate II? Or Throne of Bhaal, or Neverwinter Nights? They never treated the novelizations as canon why should we expect BG:III to? Also BladeDancer appears too modest to but I'm not going to let this opportunity pass to showcase his hard work The Complete Written Chronology of The Forgotten Realms, lovingly annotated by resident loremaster BD I could have thrown some left and right hooks, but I decided not to prove my point too aggressively because some people don't respond to overly aggressive arguments. Thanks for the shout-out by the way.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Nov 2020
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Yea I respect a company that can make its own lore following what has come before more than one that can just bring back old characters that have already had their arc in the originals. Cool link Blade, checking that out now, I had never thought the games were trying to make much of an attempt at serious long standing lore the way the books are but it's interesting to see how different authors handle the lore when they are given free reign and don't really know dnd or the universe very well. I believe Larian has done and is doing their research. Tackling some very untouched parts of the lore head on is a ballsy move.
BTW listened to the first couple hours and have to say that book was very bad and I can't believe it carries the FR namesake.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Baldur's Gate wiki has this to say:
The novels were set as the official version of the events described in the franchise in regard to the overall canon of the Forgotten Realms setting. Wizards of the Coast have however slowly started retconning this in the recent years. Now the canon is a mix of both the events in-game (including the Enhanced Editions) and the novels, though a lot of details are left ambiguous. Abdel Adrian is still the official version of Gorion's Ward.
I wish it would go into more detail about exactly which bits have been retconned, which parts are canon from the books and which parts from the games. I definitely know that the Abdel Adrian thing is canon, because he's in Murder in Baldur's Gate.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Is there a list of what is actually canon for FR?
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2016
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Is there a list of what is actually canon for FR? Not a very detailed answer but I'll throw in whatever I have A few months ago I remember seeing someone send a mail directly to WOTC to ask them which pieces of fiction that were and weren't considered to be canon. I have no way of finding this forum post again, but you're free to try if you want to put in the time. All that I faintly remember is that the accompanying material for Murder in Baldur's Gate wasn't considered to be canon, while the Infernal Tides comic series (which had just started being released a couple of months prior to the person contacting WOTC) was considered to be canon. BG3 spoilers
While I haven't read either of the two, the reason Murder in Baldur's Gate has been removed from the canon is apparently because it conflicts with what has happened to Minsc, who is a central character in the comic series I mentioned.
Due to data miners we know that Minsc is very likely to show up in BG3, possibly even as a party member. While I don't want to put on my tinfoil hat for this I don't think it's that far-fetched to imagine the comic is made as a sort of BG3 'prequel' to explain or justify why he's still alive after a hundred years.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Is there a list of what is actually canon for FR? Not a very detailed answer but I'll throw in whatever I have A few months ago I remember seeing someone send a mail directly to WOTC to ask them which pieces of fiction that were and weren't considered to be canon. I have no way of finding this forum post again, but you're free to try if you want to put in the time. All that I faintly remember is that the accompanying material for Murder in Baldur's Gate wasn't considered to be canon, while the Infernal Tides comic series (which had just started being released a couple of months prior to the person contacting WOTC) was considered to be canon. BG3 spoilers
While I haven't read either of the two, the reason Murder in Baldur's Gate has been removed from the canon is apparently because it conflicts with what has happened to Minsc, who is a central character in the comic series I mentioned.
Due to data miners we know that Minsc is very likely to show up in BG3, possibly even as a party member. While I don't want to put on my tinfoil hat for this I don't think it's that far-fetched to imagine the comic is made as a sort of BG3 'prequel' to explain or justify why he's still alive after a hundred years.
Thanks, all I got really is the 4e forgotten realms campaign setting & players guide (which are more overviews of everything). Started Neverwinter Online and put BG1 on backburner. Generally take whatever I can get at the moment.
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