Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback A Big Probblem With Stealth Pre-combat

Currently in Baldur's Gate 3 if the 1st strike doesn't kill, everyone gets alerted to your presence, which punishes stealthy characters that use anything other than a two-handed weapon. It leads to this annoying situation where my warlock criminal that dual wields daggers, thats speced for stealth and assassination missions, gets easily out performed by Lae'zel, the fighter of the group. In this video I have it set to one handed (because often the game messes with my settings on reload like unlocking my skill bar, and I didn't notice until after I recorded, and uploaded the video), but even if I had it set to dual wield the same thing would of happened. The 1st strike would do damage, dialog box happens showing everyone is alert, 2nd hand strike occurs and kills, but its too late, because everyone is alert. I've come up with a few ideas to make dual wielding daggers more viable in stealth.


Prevent character(s) from going hostile until their turn, similar to how Ethel can't surrender until its her turn.

Dagger action: Shred Vocal Cords. An action that prevents enemies from calling for help and turning nearby characters hostile immediately. Prerequisite: hidden.

Stealth modifier: Add the stealth modifier to the damage that daggers and one handed weapons do while hidden.

Noise roll: Have nearby characters roll perception to see if they hear a weapon kill from a two-handed character.

Any other suggestions to fix this issue from the community would be great. I don't tend to play stealthy characters often, so I know my suggestions in this area wouldn't be as great as someone that plays these types of characters constantly, and would know what Larian would need to add to make them work. I just know that when the fighter decked out in heavy armor wielding a massive two handed sword, out performers a stealthy character in assassination, by a large margin, three is a very clear problem.

So...
1) Warlock not meant for stealth combat, good RP though.
2) Stealth is broken already this would break it further.
3) If you are stealthed and the target is unaware, IMO you should do full damage, but Lae'zel will still do more.
4) DnD rules.

1. My character has a +5 proficiency in stealth. If Warlocks aren't supposed to be good at stealth combat I shouldn't be able to do this in the 1st place. This issue isn't unique to warlock either. Astarion, the rouge, has the same exact problem as my warlock, because the game alerts everyone if the the 1st stab doesn't kill even if the 2nd stab would have. I didn't include it in this video, because dual wielding keeps bugging out and only giving me single strikes, but if my character had done both strikes (like he was supposed to) he would have killed his target with the 2nd strike, but unlike Lae'zel who didn't alert anyone to her presence (because she killed with single strike), everyone would suddenly come rushing to attack my Warlock.

2. Stealth is broken in the player's favor mid combat, but stacked against them outside of combat (assuming you again aren't using a two handed weapon). An issue Larian will hopefully eventually solve.

3. I'm cool with her doing more, but not with her being more efficient at it. Again the game favors two-handed weapons in stealth because they are far more likely to instant kill.

4. Its a video game, and Larian is no stranger to making changes that are either more fun, or make more sense (as in this large clumsy weapon not alerting people, but a small elegant weapon made for assassination does). House rules are a thing for a reason. Also in actual d&d I would have gotten that kill and walked away scott-free with my warlock, at worst I'd have to roll to see if anyone hears the commotion.

I don't particularly care how this bizarre quirk of the game gets solved so long as it is. I could have probably listed this under technical/bugs sub forum, but I can't actually tell how intentional this is, or if this is a limitation of how the Divinity engine decides how and when enemies become hostile.

I will agree with one thing. Both weapon attacks (main hand and off hand), should occur at the same time, thus if it's enough damage to kill after both attacks, then stealth isn't broken. Even in pnp, you make both attacks as an action and bonus action in the same turn. So in this case, if it kills, then the other enemies won't be alerted.

The rogue would be far superior for this, since you get advantage on the attack and sneak attack damage, as well as advantage on with the off hand due to surprise attack. The warlock would get advantage, but no bonus damage.

Don't focus on my suggestions (they were my alternatives to what I think could be a limitation of Divinity Engine 4.0), or my comparisons to Lae'zel, because they seem to be a point of contention. All I actually want is dual wielding daggers to be just as viable for stealth kills as a two handed weapon.

I concede this point. Whether your attack is 2d6 or 2(d6) the results should be the same.

This is hard to balance of course, but I wish they found a way to make stealth viable and fun while not stupidly cheesy. Also "realistic" in the way nearby characters notice - as I understand, now it can be either "everyone in a large rowdy camp suddenly is aware an ally has been attacked" or "completely oblivious to allies dropping left and right just behind our backs".

I like the "silencing daggers/noisy big weapons" ideas, it would give an incentive to use stealthy weapons for stealth. The implementation would probably need to be messed around with, but the general idea seems good. As a bonus, it would make daggers not strictly inferior to rapiers as assassination weapons...

A possible solution is to have only enemies within X meters enter combat on the first round.
Then enemies within X+Y meters enter combat on the second round. Enemies already in combat could shout "we're being attacked!" alerting these other enemies and making it clear that other enemies are joining the fight.
Keep expanding the circle until all enemies in the area have entered combat. This would represent the fact that enemies who are further away take a bit of time to actually realize an ally has been attacked...

This would also help speed up combats: the first few rounds would have significantly fewer enemy turns to wait through.

This sounds quite reasonable; possibly line-of-sight could be taken into consideration?

Though I'm trying to think of a good solution for stealth specifically, as in avoiding detection entirely; sneak attack in 5e is much weaker than backstab in 2AD&D, so it's less likely to oneshot an enemy. That's why I like the "silencing dagger" suggestion, though I have no idea how well it would work in-game. I'd love to be able to play a party optimized for stealth/assassination and it to be a viable playstyle (hold the cheese). :P

The closest thing 5e has to a real "sneak attack" (besides rogue's Sneak Attack) is attacking while the enemy is paralyzed or unconscious:
Any attack that hits the (paralyzed or unconscious) creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet.

Larian could do something with this? If the target is unaware (you are hidden and the enemy is not hostile) then any hit is an auto crit. Combined with rogue's sneak attack, this could so serious damage (1d6 dagger + 2d6 sneak attack)*2 for crit.

However, they'd definitely have to improve enemy's ability to detect sneaking characters or else sneaking would be waaay too overpowered. Add a circle around the enemy for hearing, combined with their sight cone.

Line of sight and noise (or lack thereof) should be taken into account. Could have npcs talk to each other, if one does not answer then the others start looking to see why. There should be frequent patrols in some areas too.

For avoiding detection then maybe sleep poison? Would probably be difficult to get/make a lot of it so would have to save for strategic targets. Sleep poison could allow the next attack on the target to auto crit. Or maybe could have some special attack for after knocking out a target.



Sneaking is already too overpowered. If they improve it then your ideas could definitely work.