Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Why I effortlessly dislike Shadowheart

After having a few discussions about her and the whole probably "kind of like a god-child" or something theorys and the like...
... and Shadowheart always popping up again as a theme of discussion in circles I am a part of, I feel the need to get this off my chest.


She is not hot stuff. She only looks hot. But she is not hot stuff.
Shadowheart represents the modern day Woman.
Wannabe strong & independend Woman, which never truly takes an active role in anything, but is also never happy with the results of anything.

My final observation leading to this: Her mildly disgusted reaction at the corpses of the Tieflings, if you help the Gobs take the Groove.

So she had no problems to raid the Groove with them (and us).
No problems to kill whoever was there and had no problem with her.
Also probably thinks it is always better to side with whoever looks like the winning-team.

But when she is surrounded by the consequences of her actions then she can pout, huh?
She also says how the Tieflings don't matter to her but its wierd how "we safed them anyway" if you chose to help them.


Edgelord/Edgelady, yeah she kinda is one as well.
But ultimately she is just a smartass and complainer.
Never happy with anything and god does she let us know that.

Being never satisfied with anything does not give someone character depth. And I could give a sh°t about her Shar-Cleric Amnesia. She signed up for this. So this is no excuse for anything.
Hell yeah I too would be paranoid and barky like an abused kick dog, if parts of MYSELF would be denied to me in general.

Man she is such a softcore Karen, I wonder why she did not ask for the Manager every 15 minutes? ^_^

Shadowheart disapproves
Laezel approves
Astarion doesn't give a fuck about
Wyll pets doggo
Gale sniffs magic from an artifact plate

It's pretty hilarious believing that the women of today are evil, Shar worshippers who never get along with you.

Doesn't this say more about you, than the game's characters?

I think Larian is doing a great job with the way each character is distinct, different and memorable. So many games have such forgettable NPC's, and in BG III, there is a truly a diverse and interesting cast, down to even individual goblins have distinct characteristics that make them stand out from the horde.

In my opinion, it's one of the game's strongest features.

Larian has purposefully given us these "problem" companions to deal with to make the game more complex and add depth to the experience. The majority of the current companions appear to be evil in some way. I expect more "good" character companions will be available later. (I think they have mentioned this).

So, there will no doubt be easier to deal with companions for those who wish for more agreeable, malleable, cheerleader kinds of support a bit later on.

*SNAP* Yep. This one's going in my cringe compilation.

+1

This is what i liked about Dragon Age: Origins ...
There are some moments, where you can choose option that goes completely against some character moral codex, and they will turn on you. :3

Its so much better when companions are actualy willing to stand up for their values, and try to persuate you to reconcider, eventualy try to stop you ... than when they simply stand back there and silently disagree. -_-

Also it give better value to those options. :3

Some of the threads here have been beyond parody lately.
You know you can just not recruit her if you dislike her (or women in general?) this much, right?

I've kinda missed these posts. There were so many of them in the first week or two after EA dropped.

Women don't need to be flowery and agreeable so that you can maintain your perception of them as waifish and frail princesses who would ever be so grateful if you would save them from themselves.
Being narrow and principled doesn't make someone a bitch, it makes them narrowed and principled.
I'm not a fan of Shadowheart, but your complaints are coming from a place of fragile masculinity.

I'm sure that there'll be some lawful good naive innocent girl who is hopelessly devoted to you and is all gumdrops and butterflies 24/7.
Unfortunately, Shadowheart likely isn't going to be someone that you can mold to your expectations.
If you don't like her, don't recruit her.

I love her voice. The sexiest in the game after Amelia Tyler's in my opinion.

Okay guys.

Pre-emptive note here from your friendly and watchful Mod team. This thread is going to be watched carefully because I feel it has the potential to become explosive. Prove me wrong and keep it civil please.

Seems like the right thread for this.

For me personally, none of the companions actually stand out or I suppose interest me heavily Shadowheart is probably, currently, the most interesting one despite all those RNG rolls. Plenty of characters have been fun and/or interesting but the companions, currently, are just tools to get things done. Aka I need Lae'zel for tanking, Shadowheart for healing and Astarion as a rogue. Astarion comes across as aristocracy, up turned nose and all, but all his approval come from being a complete psychopath and his disapproval comes from anything remotely good or competent, which goes against most of the dialogue I've gotten from him. Lae'zel is a fanatical soldier with a supremacy bent, which isn't bad for a character but she's not exactly someone you should trust or even expect to partner up with were it not for the tadpole club. Lets be honest in any other scenario Lae'zel would cut your inferior head off and go home, except if you were a fellow Githyanki supremist. Gale's the guy who couldn't get over being Zeus'd so he went ahead and turned himself into a walking bomb. I mean his general character, attitude, isn't bad he comes across as a level headed guy, outside his colossal fuck up. Wyll strikes me as that delusional hero wannabe who does a dumb to do a good and naturally regrets it. Shadowheart is, to me, the more interesting character. It seems fairly obvious that she was kidnapped and brainwashed to worship Shar, so the story behind that could be interesting. Learning about Shar it makes sense that she'd have to kidnap and brainwash people, she's one of those gods that sane and/or competent people do not worship. Hell, you'd be better off worshiping Bhaal, the god of murder; or Lolth, the goddess of narcissism, she keeps the Drow weak and lesser for her own amusement.

A lot of this stuff could certainly change at the full release from getting a complete story. However, the lack of input from them during the general playthrough does hurt their appeal since you end up only getting these random "Gale Approves" or " Astarion Disapproves" while talking. A majority of their big talks come from going back to camp which can be pretty rare depending on your playstyle. If that doesn't change in the full game than it's going to be a problem. I will also add that, much like some other RPGs, making all the characters pansexual is a bit annoying, talking to Astarion during, my first playthrough, the party and having him go for the "Lets fuck" was off putting, do not like, as I don't swing that way. I think Gale as had that line of talk which pretty much made me write off talking to them. As for the OP, eh, it's an opinion, and this is my mini rant.

@OP

Yes mate I think my discription was "a terminally depressed emo chick going though the change having lost her HRT". Someone this verbally comabative, socially negative and whiney would end up on the menu after a short period.

Ew. Gross.

You gulped that bait down all the way.

But I must say this sounds like you are triggered cause you feel very close to Shadowheart.
Always analyzing. Always smartassing?
Dont even open that can.

I just closed it.


Hahahahahaha.
Glad I could help. ^^





But whatever the Community says about this topic here, or Shadowheart in general.

If we do not see even one optimistic, kinda "heroic" or somehow goodwilling female companion in the future, like this ex-winged Elf character in BaldursGate2 for example, then Women in fantasy games truly have suffered a major blow.
This Elf-chick in DOS2 was very similar to Shadowheart too. And she too was driven by a dark, emo Edgelady backgroundstory.
Can't female characters please become "normal" again?

They are totally Feminist material. ;-)
Motivated by nothing but negativity.

Shadowheart is the companion with the biggest mystery, which imo adds a lot to her interestingness as a companion.
-Astarion we immediately know is a vampire. He tells us his life story fairly easily.
-Lae'zel also just tells us her story/goals. The biggest mysteries involving her is the Gith artefact and if there actually is a purification process, which tbf aren't her mysteries. Oh, and I suppose it's unclear whether she might be an actual gith princess or she might just have an overinflated sense of importance, but the game doesn't really emphasize this (I'm mostly certain it's the latter).
-Gale might or might not be telling the truth about his history, but there's no mystery to solve. Just a task to complete.
-Wyll's lover is the biggest mystery involving him, but even that is a kind of straightforward task. Find girl. Rescue girl.

SH requires a lot of work to learn her story, and even then there is this mysterious artefact and her unknown past.

@mrfuji3

If you bring up the Mystery factor you already bring up Shadowhearts best part about her. And that is all she is for now, since its only EarlyAccess.

But when you see any kind of Forum-roleplay or D&D roleplay with friends and such at a table, isn't there always this one character?
The ultra super mysterious guy/gurl I mean.
Is Shadowheart really "new"?
Since its an actual videogame I think the danger of her being a Mary Sue is fairly low at least.

One thing is for certain.
She better be worth all of her sass. ^^

I disagree with your reasons op, but I think its perfectly fine to dislike companions and I would say that the fact that some of us really like certain companions who others really dislike is actually a sign of decent characterisation (even with hackneyed tropes present) that evokes a strong emotional reaction. or something like that. I like all the companions in their own way, but that doesn't stop me thinking that some of them are actual grade A morons (wyll and gale im looking at you)

My problem with Shadowheart and Lae'zel is the apparent assumption on the part of Larian writers that in order to be strong a woman must be unpleasant and constantly shout. I wouldn't mind one of the female companions being like that, but why both? This IS a hackneyed trope.

I find her so unpleasant and annoying, I don't care about her 'mysterious past'. I kill her and that takes care of that. I generally killed Sebille in DOS2 because anyone who wants to murder you for merely looking at them probably needs to be put out of their misery.

ETA: By the way, the OP knows damn-all about feminism, but it is not my goal in life to educate him or open his closed mind. Nevertheless, I do agree that a female companion at least close to the range of sane would be nice.

I could imagine a priestess of Shar whose politeness cause mass puke and a githyanki warrior who enjoys courteous conversations. Both pay attention to conventions and try to fit into the male worldview of a good girl.

Larian please make both old and ugly so no one will care

Or the human view of not deliberately pissing off everyone you happen to interact with.

Isn't it interesting that neither Gale, Wyll nor Astarian have to be constantly offensive, just the female characters to avoid being called a 'good girl'.