Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Some story suggestions

I finished playing through early access and I found the story telling a bit weak at this point:

• There are multiple hooks for removing the Tadpole, but they lead to nothing every time. Of course for the rest of the story to work, it can't solve the problem, but it feels very forced and frustrating that it doesn't give you anything for sacrificing both eyes, following leads to different sidequests, etc. It doesn't advance the plot at all and as such I consider it bad storytelling. In DnD terms, it's railroading. If for example you could cure companions, but not yourself for some story reason, this would lead to interesting character interactions and inject more background info. Would they stick around? If so, why? If not, will you meet again?
• This cuts deep however: Because the main plot at this point is to find a way to remove the Tadpole and every attempt being foiled, I as a player have no reason to believe the next hook would be any different. Why would I follow the main plot at this point? I can see that the game is going for desperately grasping for any solution, but then there should be a justifiable belief that it's possible and more importantly a progression that tells us more about the problem. There was a tiny glimmer of that in the Hag solution, but not enough to get me invested.
• The companions are a bit forgettable. For each of them you get the standard "dark secret", most are jerks and uncooperative (maybe with a nice facade) and cooperate because of story reasons, but their ambitions are at best to get away from their "dark secret". It would be nice if they'd differentiate a bit more and had more interesting goals in the future. Having a healthy variety of personalities and past-oriented vs future-oriented companion quests would feel a lot more satisfying. For example one of my favourite companions of all times was Kaelyn the Dove from the Mask of the Betrayer expansion for Neverwinter Nights 2: She didn't have much of a background story, but she wanted to storm the heavens for a percieved injustice of how the world works. Even if BG3 needs to stay with the whole evil party vibe because Baldur's Gate is a hive of scum and villainy, why not mix in manipulative evil, evil in the name of good, evil but loyal, evil for a purpose, pure-monster evil, pragmatic evil, trying-to-convince-yourself-to-be-evil, slowly-slipping-into-evil, ...
• An issue (or opportunity) with most CRPGs: The companions feel isolated, with only the main character tying them together. More dialogue with more than two people would be interesting, to see how different viewpoints interact (requiring the previous point: different viewpoints). Part of why for example the Mass Effect characters were memorable was that they interacted more or less organically. That is possible with a relatively small cast of characters.
• I personally would appreciate a "(sarcastic) Oh really, I'm shocked" dialog option at Astarion's vampire revelation. Or more fun: Make somebody else the vampire (though I suppose that's a bit harder)

I tried to make this as constructive as I could!

I wouldn't say that it doesn't give us anything. Each new attempt gives us information. If we don't talk to Nettie, we won't see Halsin's research and learn that there is another one tadpole-infested being and it's a freaking drow from the Underdark. When we agree to let Auntie Ethel remove our tadpole, she reveals that it's Netherese magic that affects the parasite. Even if we speak with priestess Gut, we find out that all goblins are unaware that they have tadpoles and Gut mentions us having "shadows". We learn something new almost every time, which lets us put some pieces together and be more attentive to future encounters.


I had this impression once I started played, but now I'm actually interested in finding out more about each character. Also, I believe that there is a reason why every party member comes with a skeleton in the closet. This is why they got chosen by the entity behind strange tadpoles. Shadowheart's and Lae'Zel's storylines are closely intertwined, I'm pretty sure of it. Gale is a waling nuke and someone wants him on their side, Wyll's demon is in the hands of the mind-controlling entity, etc. In addition, I don't think that the evil party members are evil just because. Astarion can be described as the most unreasonably evil guy since he approves of many evil things done by the player, but he has been a vampire lord's toy for 200 years. It's hard to imagine the depravity and wickedness he had to see and participate in. At this point, he had to become desensetized and even used to such things just to stay sane.

Shadowheart is...not evil. She is secretive, sarcastic, practical (also, she hates when the player wastes time on solving somebody else's problems, when they have their hands full), but she isn't cold-hearted or mean just for the sake of being mean. She has a task from the Shar's clergy and she is focused on it, but there are many hints that she is being used and her own identity was stolen from her. So, all these grim talks come from what the clerics of Shar told her - her own views may change depending on our actions.
Lae'Zel is my least favorite companion so far, but she has her good moments. For example, it's funny how well she gets along with Gale. He keeps asking her about gith technology and world, and she tells him without a hint of frustration, even opening up about things that worry her. All other party members (MC included) don't get the same treatment.


I'd love to sass him too, but I guess this option wasn't implemented for a reason. Vampires aren't a common sight in Faerun, they don't leave many traces or witnesses. So, it's perfectly normal that your character has never seen a vampire in the flesh, so wouldn't be able to recognize one, especially when he walks in the sunlight (that is supposed to kill vampires). It may be obvious to a player, but a Faerun commoner would rather think that Astarion is an oddball who probably landed on his head during the fall.

To be fair to Larian it's hard to tell where the tadpole story will go, given that we only have Act 1 so far. On the other hand, I found it to be a storyline which didn't really invest my attention. The very obvious flaw being the urgency which is implied in seeking a speedy removal of the tadpole but then we can jaunt here, there and everywhere doing side quests. After a while I just stopped caring about the tadpole, it creates a false immediacy.

Also there are clear 'rewards' for making use of the tadpole but so far no benefits for not doing so. Using it also unlocks things in game. So again, you are kind of railroaded into using those powers. That is the antithesis of good story telling in a CRPG.

Regarding companions, Larian made clear that we have the more evil leaning companions in EA so I don't know what the personalities will be like with the more good aligned ones. The EA companions all just come across as totally OTT (apart from Lae'zel I guess). Hard to believe they are Level 1 characters with those backstories. I think this is just Larian's style though.

The main tadpole story implies urgency but there is a LOT of focus on the companions and their story. Which you get to see by resting a lot. It kind of clashes hard.

Yeah. I feel like we get a lot of mixed messages in this game, particularly with regards to time and urgency, which leads back in to the need to make the time that passes during short and long rests more meaningful.

I hadn't really thought about how much of the focus is on the companions' stories but it's a good point. It might explain why I lost interest in playing because I had no idea what my role is in the story and the companions were very keen to get me interested in theirs, while trying to jump my bones too. It felt very forced.

Makes you think whether the game is really designed around the Origins characters.

The tadpole is in stasis. While the pc would still likely want to get it out quickly, the pc isn't in immediate danger.

Sacrificing both eyes!

I think Larian could've done a better job of creating a sense of progress - right now, your reward for complete these "cure" quests is more so learning how your specific tadpole is different from the normal case (both Halsin and Omeluum's quests give you hints/evidence that something big is going on). I wish we got to learn more - who is the antagonistic force we're up against and what are their motiations.

I would say though, you have to expect a certain level of railroading in narratively driven CRPG, since there is no DM. The only way . Even a game as open as Skyrim is super rail-roady when you focus on the main quest. I actually like that BG3 has at least given you a strong reason to pursue these sidequest (a cure for something that can kill you). Whereas a lot of other games, your motivation for side quests are purely "just because" (this includes BG2 after you've gained the required 20000 gp to progress the story).



The core motivation to keep trying despite previous failure is that because if you don't, you'll die (or that's what you believe until the Halsin/Omeluum quest). It's totally fair for you to feel that motivation didn't hook you in as a player though. The game could do more to drive home that need - my guess is Larian didn't want to over do it since RPG players tend to have time limits and real urgency.



How can you say that Kaelyn has no background story? The woman had a crisis of faith, betrayed her god and found faith in a new one, led the second crusade against the wall and in the process discover that she was following in the footsteps of someone else, and ultimately gets betrayed by her Grandfather and banished from her homeland. Her backstory can be an entire novel... and it's fantastic. It explains her motivations, her flaws, and her drive to work with the PC. Her focus on the future only works because her past sets her up for it - and that is the same for the BG3 characters too (each of their back stories are clearly informing their future goals).

Kaelyn doesn't have a "dark secret" so to say, but that's more so a product of her having certain blindspots - her "secret" is not something she tries to hide, but something that is revealed as you meet various NPCs in the game, all the way up to Kelemvor. Masks, personas are a very clear motif in Mask of the Betrayer - each of the companions wear one - whether they do it knowingly or not.

The companions you've met in BG3 aren't good, because the good companions aren't in the game so far. We do see shades of evil with the BG3 companions we have so far. You can easily read the BG3 characters so far as:

• Gale is manipulative evil
• Wyll is "evil" in the name of good (and also fits loyal and slipping into evil)
• Shadowheart is trying-to-convince-yourself-to-be-evil
• Lae'zel is pragmatic evil, given the society she is a part of
• Astarian is evil due to a combination of selfishness and trauma (in fact, he's very much like Gann)

One of the things I do like about BG3 is the inspirations they took from NWN2, and appears to have tied the NPCs to the core plot of the story. Just like all the companions in NWN2 are tied together by the spirit eater curse, the NPCs we've met in BG3 are tied together by the tadpoole. I prefer this compared to some other games, where companions follow you and put their lives on the line for very flimsy reasons.

The tadpole is in stasis. While the pc would still likely want to get it out quickly, the pc isn't in immediate danger.
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This is something you do not know right away, you learn this later. There is still the attempt to instill that feel of urgency for a good part of the act. Companions keep stressing it, NPCs who remark it is strange you did not turn yet but could turn any moment do. Even having something that is basically a ticking timebomb in your head in stasis is a thing you would want to get out asap. It remains the main plot, to deal with this thing.

It is hard to be invested in a plot like that, that is storywise time sensetive (less so maybe when you learn it is in stasis but it is still a Nope in your brain either way) while so much of the rest of the game is based around the companions and their story (which you get by resting) as well as exploration of the map and sidequests.

It is still a contradiction in writing, especially so at the start of the game.

This is something you do not know right away, you learn this later. There is still the attempt to instill that feel of urgency for a good part of the act. Companions keep stressing it, NPCs who remark it is strange you did not turn yet but could turn any moment do. Even having something that is basically a ticking timebomb in your head in stasis is a thing you would want to get out asap. It remains the main plot, to deal with this thing.

It is hard to be invested in a plot like that, that is storywise time sensetive (less so maybe when you learn it is in stasis but it is still a Nope in your brain either way) while so much of the rest of the game is based around the companions and their story (which you get by resting) as well as exploration of the map and sidequests.

It is still a contradiction in writing, especially so at the start of the game.

I don't get how Gale is evil though? He tries to have his bomb disabled alongside the tadpole. He reveals it to you when he's comfortable enough, and it is something that he could just hide if he is manipulative and evil. he also told you a story about how he defused a violent situation and save lives after seeing you resolve some conflicts. Most of his approvals come from you helping people out and select the benevolence option. I don't get much evil vibe from him. He also leaves your party if you side with the evil faction. What makes him evil exactly?

You just expected to be in finish, when you reached first check point ...
Yes, it appeared like finish like and for our characters its important to look like finish, so they try to reach it ... sometimes its just check point, sometimes its just dead-end ... but your are still moving forward, and as you were allready told, you are still learning something new.

I also dont think that you can sacrifice both eyes, i was unable to try any healing metod involving loosing an eye with Wyll since he allready lost one.
And if we put aside that, if your character loose and eye and then decide to sacrifice other one ... well, i gues hes not fast learner. :-/

Cant imagine how would you uphold that ... like in that pool was all regular tadpoles and single one that was alterned with dark magic ... and that alterned one was conveniently not eaten by others, and even more conveniently implanted just to your character? :-/ I dont like that, kinda too much coincidences at once.

To be completely honest i dont even like the fact that you can undergo all "healing metods" with your companions ...
So they take all the risks. :-/ I admit that once i forced Lae'zel (when i didnt use her regulary) like this to be the one who will allow the Hag to remove her eyeball in order to "try to help" ... pretty stupid that you are allowed to do that, since Lae'zel is keep repeating to you that nothing except purification will work.

So if there is anything that could improve the story, its to remove option to undergo atempts to remove the tadpole for all your selfish, distrusting, or sceptical companions.

Well ... it depend on your point of view ...

As a character you have few reasons:
1) You dont want to turn into mind flayer. And everyone keep reminding you that you have little time.
2) No metod is repeated twice, so you can never know if the previous metod didnt work bcs it was just bad one ... and this is the good one.
3) And finaly, since you can force your comanions to do that ... why the hells not? You are perfectly safe while they are lying under someone's knife.

As a player there is one main reason abowe all ...
Its a main plot ... sooner or later you can either follow it, or just stop playing ... there is no third option.
Also, you cant quite avoid it, since whole game is revolving around that problem.

And i would dare to say that main reasons of existence of games is having fun ... so if you need to search reasons to keep playing anything ... you seem to have problem and should search entirely different kind of help. :-/

Larian allready confimmed that we dont have all companions implemented yet ...
So i believe that there will be some differences.

Also you are talking about each having "dark secret" ... i wonder what is Lae'zels secret ... or what is Wylls secret ...
The others, well ... dont seem to tell everyone on the route their life story, but i dont know how is that a bad thing ...
"Hey i just met you and this is crazy, but you should know that i could turn into 20.000 kilotons magnitude explosion in any moment" > that would be stupid.

First you need to create all characters ... then you tie then together.

There is a LOT more reactions that we need ...
Specificly a "(sarcastic) Oh really, I'm shocked" ... we could use in almost every second dialog with Shadowhearth, Lae'zel and Astarion.

Gale's "evil" is rather subtle, and hence an excellent example of the different shades of evil featured in BG3.

I classify him as "manipulative evil" because his morality is most questionable when it comes to him pursuing his desires. He is 100% willing to jeopardize others or deny people their agency (by withholding facts) in the pursuit of his goals. He's far from a mustache twirling villain, and he's probably someone who'd genuinely wish you well if you didn't have something he wanted, or not in his way.

The first sign is obviously how he chose to reveal his secret to us. For a party whose entire reason for being together is to try to find a way to stay alive, the fact that he's a walking nuclear bomb is very important. I don't believe that Gale waited until he was comfortable to share his secret. He started hinting at his secret because he wanted to consume the artifacts that you gather. He strategically reveals it to us when he feels like he's disarmed you enough to guarantee the outcome he wants. He effectively manipulates the situation to deny the player agency - an educated choice up front.

We see another example of this during the tiefling party if you're romancing him, where Gale once again denies the player agency to go after what he wants. After the party, he'll reveal to you the full extent of his condition. If you had slept with him and get pissed off at him for not telling you about his explosive condition + past obsession with Mystra, he explains himself by saying that he couldn't tell you because he'd lose his chance to sleep with you if you knew the truth.

Lastly, the most damning evidence of this behavior is his backstory itself. Tampering with Netherese magic is exceptionally dangerous, and the fact that it is related to Karsus's Avatar makes it even worst. It takes a certain level of arrogance and sociopathy to deal with magic that dangerous, all to "win back" an ex. It's not that he's going out of his way to hurt other people, it's more that it seems like in his mind, he doesn't care what the effects or who it harms, if it can get him what he wants.

So sure, while Gale doesn't condone murdering an entire village of innocence, that's such a cartoonish-level of evil (especially when you consider that no one really gains much out of it) that I'm frankly glad BG3 isn't solely exploring. He's kind of the everyday, law-abiding citizen until that one time he manipulates and risks all of his friends lives to get something he wants.

On a more meta-level, we've heard Larian say that only the evil/neutral companions are in right now, and in Kevin Van Ord's stream he did mention that of all the companions, the one most leaning towards good is Wyll. This doesn't pin point Gale as evil, but it is why a lot of people (myself included), have read deeper into Gale's actions/story, beyond his facade of friendliness.

I always felt Gale was closer to Neutral but I definitely can see and appreciate your perspective. He is friendly but dabbled with things beyond him. He tends to prefer good actions but will accept quite a lot just to postpone his condition. And I did notice he can be a bit manipulative but I do think that he at least believes that his feelings for the main character are genuine if you start to romance him. Perhaps him being flung down to a level one mage and journeying with the party could humanize him, or make him into an actual evil monster who just manipulates people for survival. I think he has the potential for both and is kinda teetering in between, where the actual danger to his humanity right now isn't the halted tadpole but his obsession with magic.

I also think, after a few playthroughs, that his jolly good mate guy demeanour might be him ingratiating himself to a good-guy PC rather than... An earnest aspect of himself so to say. Though, I admit, it might be me overanalysing things because of having played the game several times. But, here's the thing, the first time I started the game Gale was easily my favourite companion -- he's nice, friendly, and tells a good story, what's not to like? Well, later I realised one of the reasons I was so fast to favour him was that he is the only one making an effort to be your friend in a company of more-or-less hostile people. He compliments you and your actions and attempts to bond with you. And I'm no longer sure if that behaviour is how he actually is or how he pretends to be -- see, though I can't say for certain, but I believe he only acts like that when you do good things, but he also doesn't have any trouble with you doing questionable or evil things. And this might either mean that he is an neutralish guy who prefers the good but is okay with evil if it furthers his own goals... Or that he is a neutralish-to-evil kind of guy playing to your good guy sensibilities to get you to like him more.

I'm not sure how much of this is in my head. It will be fun to see where he goes.

I also don't think Shadowgirl is non-evil at all. She's just evil-but-not-without-conscience. I do think her story will develop in an opportunity to shift her morality more good-wise or affirm it in evil, perhaps forgoing her conscience.

I kind of hope that the Gale is Evil theory is true. It adds some interesting depth to the character rather than what the writing for the companions is right now. And it makes for a more believable evil, one that knows how to function in a society in FR (And abuse it) without being outed as a thug, villain or bad guy like so many "kick the puppy" evils you tend to see a lot.