Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback D&D Feel

In D&D games there are certain things that give the games a D&D feel. One of those things is how modifiers are displayed in a roll.

Meaning If I am +2 on a wisdom check, the user would see the d20 roll + 2. In BG:III it's removing the modifier from the target number.
Yes, I know the math stays the same.
And traditionally the user would have the option to see all the rolls happening.
Just a thought.

Subtracting from the DC has a side disadvantage of minimising the impression of player accomplishments. DCs gradually get more challenging as you progress through the levels, but generally, for the things you're good at, your ability in those tasks improves more. That feeling of being awesome when you roll a 35 slight of hand check as a rogue, to steal that important ring from the BBE, for example, is one of the neat things about the game; it was a DC 30, and you got 35 because you're that awesome!

If they continue to display it this way, however, you'll go through the entire game being presented with target values between 1 and 20, and rolling between 1 and 20, and you generally will miss out on that feeling of personal skillfullness, or of improvement at all, because this methods highlights the dice more than the player's abilities - it's just your 1-20 dice against a 1-20 target number, no matter what you're doing. It will never feel like you're facing particularly tough challenges, because your roll and the target number will always look the same, from level 1 through to level 20.

The default display should always be the DC, and your roll with the modifiers added for your total.

5e's Bounded Accuracy already nuked that a lot with making modifiers greater than +10 require magical equipment or level 19+.

With a max proficiency of +6 and a max ability score modifier of +5, the absolute maximum any character can roll without magical gear is 21, and even magical gear is limited to +5 bonuses at most and normally only grants Advantage. So the DCs are almost never going above 24 for an 'impossible for mere mortals' check.

Er, not quite, Furyou.

31 is the base maximum you can pass with just core stat and simple proficiency - that's 11 + 20

However, there are plenty of class features that specialists have access to that allows for further boosts; rogue's expertise is the most well known, but there are several other sources of expertise or expertise equivalent features scattered through other classes as well. BG3 doesn't have expertise yet, but core 5e does - a character with expertise will have a +17 modifier at level 17, letting them DCs of up to 37 in their expertise skills, no magical equipment required.

Bards, when we get them, can also let players add up to a d12 onto that as well - giving potential for a regular character with a bard die to pass DCs of up to 43, and expertise characters with a bard die to pass DCs of up to 49.

Add in guidance, and that Bard-inspired Expertise Rogue stands a slim-but-still-technically-possible chance of successfully slight-of-hand stealing that dracolich's favourite gem on a DC 53! That same rogue with a bard die and guidance cannot fail to successfully slight of hand any DC lower than 29, or DC 27 with no buffs or help at all (Reliable Talent = die roll of 10 minimum, +17, +1 on guidance die, +1 on Bard die).

Attainable at level 17.
Drop to level 15 and we reduce all of those potential final values by 2 (so, 35, 41, 47, 51) (proficiency +5, but bard die still d12)
Drop to level 13, and we reduce them by 2 more (33, 39, 45, 49) (Proficiency +5, bard die d10)
Drop to level 10, and we reduce them by 2 more (31, 37, 43, 47) (Proficiency +4, bard die d10)
Drop to level 9, and we reduce them by 2 more (29, 37, 41, 45) (Proficiency +4, bard die d8)
Drop to level 5 and we reduce them by 2 more (27, 35, 39, 43) (Proficiency +3, bard die d8)

Even at level 1, if we assume a +3 core stat, that Rogue is still looking at a +7 modifier on their slight of hand, plus a potential d4 guidance and a potential d6 bard die - given them a level one potential of cracking a DC 37 check.

All with no magic items required.


Remember, 5e's DC scaling goes:
DC5: Very Easy
DC10: Easy
DC15: Moderate
DC20: Hard
DC25: Very Hard
DC30: Nearly Impossible

Regardless of all this, however, in the current game, even if you're pushing those lofty heights of near demi-divine capabilities and heroic aptitude or legendary and stories calibre... it's STILL going to LOOK like: Target: (11), You rolled: (12), Success... which just fails to feel the same for many people.

Even setting aside the feel it makes the game difficult to parse. Is guidance working? Am I getting proficiency bonuses? Am I triggering advantage? What kind of a bonus is advantage anyway?

Advantage (PnP): Roll twice pick highest
Advantage (BG3): Not a fricken clue.


I think I did the maths with take 10? Or maybe I was just going off our group's normal rolls XD but yes, I made a small mistake there.

Very well said.

+1 ... hitting skill check results in the 30s (even 40s) is what makes you feel more epic later in the game. Please don’t rob us of that Larian.