Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Patch 5 combat encounter difficulty discussion

100% Agree. MA is too OP.

Sounds like they confused Turn Undead with base Frighten.

Turn Undead is "Frighten + they have to run"... sort of like there's a couple of monsters that inflict "Poisoned and while you are poisoned by this effect you are also paralyzed".

For an update on recreating a first playthrough, the biggest change is going back to unweighted dice, they are still streaky and I've had to long rest more frequently to recover spell slots, I had 8 misses in a row against a random goblin, etc.

My non Min/Max Tav has gone down twice (Which didn't even happen with Gale since patch 5). Currently postured to take out Dror Ragzlin, Minthara and priestess gut have been assassinated. It's an improvement from how non Min/Max performed in Patch 3 or 4.

I have been playing an "all ranged" party.

High Elf Fighter using only Bows, Gale, Wyll and Shadowheart. It's certainly interesting without any sort of ability to Melee people. We're all halfway to level 4 at the moment. There have been no downs yet. Gearing up to do Minthara and Gut. Overall I would say it is easier than some of the more gimmicky things I tried in Patch 5 - AC cleric, melee wizard, "revenge warlock" (killing things with AoA and Hellish Rebuke)

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I will also second enemies using Dash superfluously including examples of Mages using dash to run into melee range.

Update: my all ranged party got to level 4 and had no problem with Minthara and did Guts from her room agrroing everyone outside. Wyll went down but otherwise it was fine. Currently no wipes/loads so far.


Generally the 18 dex Archer Fighter is strong due to very good to hit chance (+2 from Archery) though ranged damage (with +1 longbow) is outdone by a maxed Hex-Warlock (1d8 + 1 + 4 max compared to 1d10 + 1d6 + 4 max) it hits a lot even on flat ground and the Battlmaster tactics can be very effective. I have tried out the various new Battlemaster stuff and the disarm attempt does not show up rolls in the log. I have manged to disarm things but I don't know what it is rolling against...? (Menacing is Wis and Knockdown is Str for reference) Knock prone works fine and the rolls are in the log. All three can be fun but Menacing (which was already there) is the most effective against low Wis foes.

Yeah, Menacing Attack is the best thing in the game for combat. If you land Menacing Attack with the fear effect on any enemy = GG.

It is waaaaaay past broken.

And that's another thing Larian changed from 5e, the Frightened condition. It doesn't make you flee and draw AoO's from everyone in 5e, it only gives you Disadvantage on attacks and saving throws. So you can still fight with Disadvantage or do defensive things but definitely don't get destroyed by free attacks as you flee uncontrollably without even using Disengage in BG3.

Alright the Dror fight has been the toughest so far (for non Min/Max) I felt a first time player might start the fight from the conversation so I did that everytime. (Keep in mind, I am trying to recreate what a first time player would attempt. So Magic Missile and Shatter are not being utilized.)

At level 3 I failed twice and chose to see how level 4 would do. It had been ridiculously hard (the streaky dice are unforgiving here, nothing like two rounds of misses for your party...), I don't think the AI registers Mage Armor as I could not lean on it at all in the fight to protect Tav.

So I took a detour and got to level 4, Tav is now +2 Dex, Int, & Con.

I won the fight at level 4 by leaning heavily on Astarion, Wyll, and Shadowheart. Tav's biggest contribution was picking up Wyll when he went down. As soon as Tav got Flaming sphere on the scene, her concentration was broken. I also got a grenade from killing the goblins in the nearby room and it helped alleviate the bad start the fight can have.

It's apparent with how streaky the original dice are that if you don't have a +4 to your core stat... good luck getting that hit. It's not like the enemies have high AC in this fight, the first two attempts my party streaked so low to open the fight.

I don't think I can kill the gits on this patch. I think their HP has become even more, and the attacks are even stronger. I had no problems with the others. I easily killed a spider, a hag and a bulet. But gits... they are really too strong and they have become smarter. Previously, I could kill them out of stealth, but now they are looking for me, successfully find and kill me.

Team "ironman-ranged" did the Spider Matriarch with no problem. It is still the same basic fight - I dropped her from a web once but imo it wasn't really necessary. We then did Dror + Spiders, Polmira and the Minotaurs on one rest. Dror was done just by way of walking in the front and going from there. His special ability did blast Shadowheart off the edge and down into the Spiders but we managed to keep her alive even with that (Thank you Wyll!). Overall I think these fights, especially Dror feel good- neither needing to expend all resources nor being a total walk in the park i.e. someone who knows what they are doing can do Dror without needing to use rafters, barrels or stealth. Did use stealth to get the drop on the Minotaurs but personally I think approaching an encounter stealth-ed is perfectly fine.

The Fighter-Archer really does hold up. I added in dual scimitars so she does a bit of melee when she has to but mostly she can use Amulet of Misty Step to jump away. Might fully gear up now and go for the Githyanki. My previous attempt did not go well.

@Nyloth - they have deffo had their HP increased (think this was mentioned in the patch notes - I am wondering if this is "legal" hp or deliberately too high for "testing purposes", I will try to remember to check their CON) and they act very smart, at least for little computer people.

It's powerful but it hasn't been some sort of game changer for me. Some enemies seem immune, or seem to shake it off. Also I have noticed some enemies not fleeing while under the effect. Certainly the effect seems varied at least in my games. Basically I don't understand how the effect is varied and controlled. I've been able to play around with all the Battlemaster manuvers and they are all pretty powerful in different situations.

Gnoll encounter slightly easier - Gith patrol yikes ! that’s hugely harder - tried to talk my way out of it twice so far - twice I’ve had my backside handed to me ....that’s definitely a fight I don’t think you’re supposed to win any more

Gith patrol fight is a lot harder but the Fighter's new disarming attack is really powerful against them. Druids can also use heat metal for the same effect, both abilities cause enemies to drop their weapons now. It completely neuters the Giths damage output and makes the fight winnable without cheesing it.

I still think the encounter is overtuned though because its so unforgiving, even bad initiative rolls is enough to lose the fight since they all get to attack first and kill half the party before you even get a turn.

I jist can't believe they made it harder. It was like they not only disregarded my feedback previously, they decided to do the opposite of what I said. The fight wouldn't be as impossible with 6 Level 5 characters BEFORE making it harder.

I have a mostly melee party with high AC and feel like that makes a lot of encounters easier than playing ranged unless you use stealth shenanigans. I'd say actually the toughest fight for me was killing the cambions in the tutorial. There I needed some cheesy gameplay, that involved a lot of shoving.

The Gith fight went well for me, probably because the AI took some very questionable decisions. (E.g. Having the rogue attack my AC18 full HP ranger instead of targeting an already injured Lae'zel, squishy Gale or Shadowheart who was concentrating on a powerful spell. Or casting silence on Lae'zel and the Ranger instead of Gale or Shadowheart). I guess once the AI becomes smarter, they might have to reduce the HP again. But in the current state it seems a fitting difficulty, considering that this will likely be the final fight before you start act 2 and you also get a lot of valuable loot.

I was struggeling with some of the underdark fights, but that was mainly a self made issue (3 party members without darkvision, forgot to have anyone pick the light or dancing lights cantrip).

I had my first character death due to the absolutely shambolic movement handling. I was doing the hook horrors in noob fashion, unrested and just ambling in. Anyway the fight was a mess but we did win with Shadowheart down. Unfortunately on combat ending the rest of my team insisted in running up some vines before climbing back down, repeatedly, followed by some jumping around and running in the wrong direction; during which Shadowheart expired. All I ever did was click on the ground next to her asking my noob squad to go over there. Turn based mode refused to turn on. Overall I would say that if a significant part of your game's difficulty is your movement system... there is some issue here.

This is good to hear for me, since I very strongly prefer melee combat over both ranged missiles and spells.

With respect to AC, is it strictly an armor thing or are there passives and spell buffs that you are using to boost your AC?

Shield of Faith buffs AC by 2. Potions of speed also provide AC buff I believe. At level 4, you can take certain Feats that buff AC.
Trying to think what else.

On the point of AC, afaik the highest "long term" AC you can get is 22 in the EA with a Fighter:

15 from Scale Mail Armor +1/Lae'zel's Armor
+2 from Dex 14
+2 from a Shield
+1 from Defensive

then buffed with:
+2 from Shield of Faith

Though if someone knows higher I am interested. I am aware that Mirror Image will boost higher for a brief period but its not a long term thing.

AC of 17 to 19 is relatively standard for most combat classes in the EA with available gear. Afaik there is a lack of heavy armor so Medium armor + 2 Dex represents the best in EA. No idea what it will be like in the finished product.

The all-ranged party succeeded in absolutely Wrecking the inproved Githyanki on first Attempt.

The big change is not having Lae'zel running in like a noob. She is chilling at the camp instead.

MVPs:
Arranging everyone on the high ground, stealthing then commencing surprise assault.
The Magic Missile Amulet
Ranged Menacing Assault + Poison on Bow
Hex-Warlock with Agonizing Blast
Upcast Guided Bolt
and for fun upcast Ray of Sickness + Poisoner's Robe

That was enough to destroy them without having to dip into:
Restealthing in combat
Potions of Speed
Barrels
The Imp
Shoving
DIpping
Invisibility Potions
Kite-ing

I personally consider it a full non-cheese win with the general tools provided within the game and am declaring my Patch 5 Ironman complete and won, having done the Duergar earlier.