Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Dex based fighter?

Anybody try making a dexterity based fighter? You know, somebody that does pokey stabby with finesse melee weapons? Just for kicks.

Just wondering if anybody else has thought about trying it besides myself, and if you tried it how did it work out?

Have a great day!

Why wouldn't it work? As long as you use finesse weapon it's exactly the same

It should work out better actually, since there isn't appropriate heavy armor in the game. A dex fighter will be able to get 17 AC relatively easily, while a str fighter will be stuck at AC 16. But for a large portion of EA, said strength fighter will be stuck with medium armor or ring mail, giving them an AC of 13-15 depending on their likely low dex score.

Furthermore, the removal of Backstab Advantage makes the feat Great Weapon Master less OP, effectively buffing dex fighters relative to str fighters.

The only(?) downside about dex fighters is that currently dual-wielding doesn't work properly. Last I heard, the game doesn't add your dex modifier to attack rolls with off-hand weapons.

Shouldn't that be a privilege only for people who took the appropriate feat?
Not that it would save DW from sucking anyway, but still.

When multiclassing is built in, a rogue/fight dual class dex fighter with the extra bonus attack will be like a lawnmower with the current implementation…

You should always get your dex bonus to attack rolls, both main and off-hand.

The two-weapon fighting style allows you to add your dex bonus to damage with off-hand weapons. I believe this fighting style is working correctly atm..?
The Dual Wielder feat allows you to dual wield non-light weapons and gets you a bonus to AC.

You could start here: https://chicken-dinner.com/5e/5e-po...mp;9&4&4&4&4&4&4

Choosing Wood Elf gives you stealth, movement buff, dark vision, and elvish resists.


Adopt two-weapon fighting as your fighting style (full damage on off hand finesse attacks). (Attacks x2)

Pick up Eldritch Knight at level 3. (with the Intelligence 18 crown, you are a competent caster)

Level 5 (attacks x3)

levels 4 and 6 boost Dexterity to 20 for max damage and AC

Levels 8 and 12 boost constitution for max health and Concentration saving throws.

Level 11 (attacks x4)

Level 13 You can cast haste for 5 attacks and have + 10 to concentration saving throws to maintain haste.

Did we forget to mention Action Surge?


Bonus: now you can read up on the Eldritch Knight goodies that give you spells + melee combos.

Advantage: Backstabs are gone in patch 5 (probably because enemies never missed the opportunity to exploit them, and could wipe out parties fast). I will reserve judgement here, as it is off topic.

You can use magic to knock things prone or create other advantage opportunities.

When the game launches we should have a barbarian companion option. Having one in the party with Totem of the Wolf would be your best friend to fight beside. (persistent advantage)

DEX based fighter is certainly a viable option.

1 thing that people should keep in mind however is that heavy armor has a STR requirement. You could use medium armor at a pinch but some of the endgame heavy armors wouldnt be an option if you keep your STR to low.

Dex fighters don't generally want to use heavy armors though, because heavy armors don't allow dex bonus to AC. With a dex of 20 (+5), Studded Leather is as good as Splint. Better actually, because less weight and no disadvantage on stealth checks. The highest-level heavy armor is Plate, which only adds +1 AC compared to the above, so not that much of a difference.

Also, plate armor isn't an end-game armor. It's a mid game at most, and really should be available to players at level 4-5 (Larian fix this please; give us more heavy armors). End-game armors are magical versions of normal armors, and +3 studded leather should be equally as find-able as +3 plate.

Well that depends. Generally not, but you also dont know what kind of armors you will find in the game. And I dident specify that plate is end game armor. Id say magical armors (of any kind) that gives the best AC and/or has other benefits could be the best one. AC isent the only factor involved in that. I never mentioned plate beeing end game armor so I dont know where you got that impression from?

That said if you are just looking at AC.... going for 20 DEX is at best possible at level 6. Which would mean that before that time the heavy armors would give a better AC. Infact considering you could have a DEX of 17 at the very highest at character creation chain mail would always give you better protection. At level 4 you could get an equal protection with an ASI or a feat that grants +1 dex (and some other benefit) and only at lvl 6 when the next improvement comes up would you get that AC of 17.

Considering its not hard to start with a AC of 19 at lvl 1 with chainmail armor, defense fighting style and a shield, im not really impressed with an AC of 17 at lvl 6 for races with +2 DEX.... Mind you, you start with chainmail in the pnp, not in BG3 so I will condede that point. Not only do you not start with them they arent readily available in BG3 as of this time. Thats a very big problem and Larian needs to fix that, but my point stands. An AC17 for a fighter is pretty damn mediocre. With the same fighting style and a shield you get AC20 with DEX20. 1 point more then a lvl 1 fighter can get. But you need lvl 6 (for the 2 ASI's) to reach that point. Not really a shining endorsement.... Heck, my Elven wizard with mage armor has AC16 at level 1. Dont want to rag on about this so much but an AC17 for a fighter is pretty damn low.

Now DEX fighters are obviously more then their AC. DEX aids in stealth, initiatiive, stealing etc. but I mentioned the strength requirement because if people dont take it into consideration and dump STR, they might run into some problems later down the line. The better armors need 15STR to use without penalties. Melee attacks (other then finesse weapons) use STR. Thrown weapons use STR. Things like grapple or freeing from bonds requires STR. You can sometimes use DEX instead but thats not always an option. It factors into your carry weight. How far you can toss things or lift things. How far you can jump etc etc etc

You can use weapons that use DEX rather then STR, you can use light armor to use your DEX bonus to your AC and you can use a bow iin place of thrown weapons. You will be stealthier and have a higher initiative on avarage as well. But STR is used for more then just combat, which was my only point...

Just to note - The strength score listing on heavy armours does one and only one thing if you don't meet it - it reduces your speed by 10 feet. Now speed is valuable, yes, but the difference here is the value of a single action over the course of a whole encounter, generally speaking (as always exception will apply – this is an average general description). Important to note, however, it that it is not a requirement to use the armour, and not meeting it does not impose any other penalties of any sort, other than that single speed reduction.

If you base in Dex, you will use finesse weapons. You will not use thrown weapons unless they are finesse, and you can use ranged weapons more easily, which are almost always the superior choice for things out of your reach anyway; these are not really successful points, considering that you are at no detriment choosing Dex over Strength here, since there is no shortage of suitable finesse weapons, and arguably you are at a disadvantage using strength, since the range of thrown weapons falls far, far short of the range of ranged weapons.

The difference in AC between a 20STR fighter using the best heavy armour, and using all of the same feats and features as a 20Dex fighter using the best light armour is exactly 1 point... and for that one point they have a 20 in what is considered overall to be a far more valuable, useful and more versatile ability score. Dex is, overall, a much more valuable stat than Strength. It's why there exist many ability score setting magic items, even in the lowest grade of items, for Strength, but there are no such equivalent items for Dex - Dex versions of those same items would value up as being one, possibly two, rarity grades higher than the strength ones, if they existed (as would charisma versions, which is why they also do not exist off base... but wisdom and intelligence versions do).

Quick review:

A Dex fighter with defence fighting style and a shield, has an AC of 17 available to them at level 1 in BG3: That is: Leather (11) + 17 Dex (+3), Style (+1), Shield (+2) This becomes 18 if we allow for how rapidly you can acquire Studded/studded equivalent in the game currently.

A Str fighter with defence fighting style and a shield, has an AC of 17 available to them at level 1 in BG3: That is: Ring (14), Style (+1), Shield (+2). This is IF-and-only-IF we hang out on doing the comparrison long enough to GET ring mail, which takes longer than getting Studded/equivalent. If you want Chain, well, last I checked you couldn't stumble upon any chain until after the grove.

If we stretch to chain anyway, it becomes 19, which is still only 1 better than the Dexer at the same point of play (assuming you're not level 4 already - if you are, the Dexer will be 19 as well, and equal).

The Dexer will move to 19 and then 20 by level 6, no other gearing or equipment luck needed.

The Strength fighter will only improve if they find better armour - to 19 with Chain, 20 with Splint and 21 with plate.

It is, ultimately, a small disparity that is more than overshadowed by the greater value of Dex itself over Strength, as an ability score.

The nod to carry weight is probably the most important balancing factor back in Strength's favour, at least as far as video games go. Outside of that, Strength does have some uses out of combat, but realistically not many - general strength checks are moderately rare, and while athletics can be a fairly common roll, stealth, acrobatics, and sleight of hand more common all together, and more generally speaking as well, as are general dexterity checks.

Valid point about not-meeting the STR requirement only imposing a movement penalty. I thought it also gave you other penalties but those only apply when you arent proficient with the armor. That said, if you want to reach melee combat moving 10 feet less is a rather big penalty. Specially if your moment isent 30 feet or more. Heck even at 30 feet movement thats one third of your movement gone. Only dwarves ignore this penalty but their movement is already 25 feet, so less then most races and theyre not ideal for a DEX build. They do give overall good bonuses for fighters so theres that

Just so people dont misunderstand me, im not saying a DEX fighter cant (or shouldnt) be done. Its an option if people want to play it thats fine. Im not going to tell people how to play or how not to play. I will however bring up some of the disadvantages to the build as I feel they are often overlooked. For the following section im assuming people dont put any points in STR at character creation at all (thus dumping it) and it beeing 8 with a -1 modifier. You only have so many AS points to spend and having a decent CON is often also needed for a fighter. I often see people dumping STR completly if they go for a DEX build, hence why im taking this stance.

Just to start with, DEX beeing more valuable, (for a Fighter specificly) id contest that. Lets compare what both bring (and dont bring) to the fighter specificly and not to DND as a whole.

Skills:
STR - Athletics (short list)
DEX - Acrobatics, Sleight of hand and Stealth.

So right off the bat, DEX influences 3 skills rather then 1. The 1 skill that STR governs however factors into ALOT. It is used to determine how long you can jump, how well you can climb, how well you can swim, if you can grapple someone, if you can free yourself from a grapple (or the retraint effect in general) etc. A pretty long list.

However for the DEX skills a fighter has no acces to these skills (aside from Acrobatics) to begin with unless you took them via a background or a racial bonus somehow. Some of the more 'shady' backgrounds can add stealth or slight of hand but I dont think any of the PHB backgrounds give both. And they might not fit with your idea of your character for the people who think RP is important. And even then, a rogue or bard can outperform a fighter with identical stats and can more easily gain those skills as well. Rogues also have profeciency with their thief tools which is not to be underrestimated.

Saving throws:
Saving throws need a mention as well in this case. Not that you can choose to have DEX as a proficient saving throw but STR is one you have. Most AOE spells allow a DEX save to avoid damage, but STR saves are more aimed at avoiding negative effects. Spells like entangle, entangling strike or monster related attacks that force a STR test (some allow a DEX check instead but not all). Some monsters (shadows IIRC?) drain STR until you can negate the effect with a spell or a rest and if your STR reaches 0 you are dead. Thats true for every stat btw but relevant here if people dump STR. Sometimes you need to strong arm your way into a situation by lifting, breaking or moving something and DEX cannot always help you in those cases.

DEX also factors into AC and initiative but we both brought that up already. Id say the bonus to AC generally speaking balances out when you are comparing top tiers of both armors. Considering you roll a D20 and add the iniative bonus ontop of that it doesent always matter how high your bonus is.... If the D20 rolls a 1 your very unlikely to go first

Now I do want to bring up another fact that we havent brought up about DEX based fithters. Well kinda, because we have brought up weapons. But specificly their damage die. For melee weapons the highest you would be able to go would be a D8 for a Rapier (unless im missing something?) while STR based weapons go all the way up to D12's. The reverse is true for ranged weapons mind, thrown weapons are max D6 while bows and crossbows can go up to D8's or D10's. That said id say thrown weapons are generally only used as filler when a fighter cant reach combat in 1 turn anyway and he doesent want to throw away his turn or run head first into enemy lines on his own. So the extra range that bows have only matters if its your main source of damage.

And this is ofcourse fine if you were going for a ranged fighter or more of a skirmisher build to begin with but my point (sorry for taking so long to get to it lol) is that it severly pidgeonholes you into a select few weapon groups and the best case scenario for you would be ranged when it comes to damage dealing. Is just doing the max amount of damage the only thing to your character? Ofcourse not. But it can be important for people to take both the advantages and the disadvantages of builds in mind when they are considering one so they dont get a nasty suprise they dident know about later down the line. Sorry im not really concise, not one of my strong sides im afraid

In addition to this:
An interesting way to gear your fighter in BG3 might actually be to go for medium armor instead of light or heavy! Lae'zel comes with half plate right? With DEX14 (at least) that gives you an AC of 17 before factoring in shields and your fighting style. With both thats an AC of 20 at the start of the game! If you just go with the +1 AC fighting style you could run a 2hander (or 2 weapons) and still pack an AC of 18. This would leave her without her armor obviously but if you dont want to take her along anyway or want to kill her that frees up the armor!

5e armor is largely a choice of flavor... Light Armor, Medium Armor, and Heavy Armor all get to about the same AC.

Studded Leather 12+Dex, 17 assuming maximum Dex.
Halfplate 15+Dex(2), 17 assuming Dex 14+
Plate Mail 18

Natural armor and mage armor are similar:

Natural Armor (Draconic Sorcerer, Lizardfolk) or Mage Armor - 13+Dex, 18 assuming maximum Dex

Unarmored Defense is a bit higher:

Barbarian or Monk - 10+Dex+Con/Wis, 20 assuming max Dex and Con or Wis depending.

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Going into other in-character options, Medium Armor Master feat can get medium armor to max out at AC 18 before magic.
Dual Wield can give +1 AC

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Going into gear options, Shields can get armors (including mage and natural) to 19 or 20 AC and Barbarians to 22 AC... monks lose AC for using shields (which is a bit silly, but okay)

For magical enhancement
Cloak of Protection, Bracers of Defense, and Ring of Protection eat up all three Attunement slots for +4 AC
Shields and Armor can get up to +3 and don't take attunement for pure bonus
The Defender sword can give a +3 AC but is an Attunement slot

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It's reasonably possible to get to high AC numbers with all the various styles, though Monks, Mages, and Natural Armor get high faster, but cap out a little lower due to lack of enhancement bonus. Barbarians are a bit of an exception due to their capstone. With protection items, a shield, and max Dex and Con they can hit 31 AC. Heavy armor can hit up to 30 AC via +3 enchantments and protection items. Mage Armor can get up to 23 with Bracers/Robe of Archmagi/Ring which can be boosted to 27 with Shield.

But the types of non-AC enchantments that come with Light, Medium, Heavy, and Robes are all very different.

So while all characters that make an effort can get reasonably high AC (and in practice they're likely to diversify more) the different lines have different side-benefits. Glamoured Armor by standard is Light Armor, for instance...

Of course, there's nothing preventing a group from making a unique suit of glamoured full plate, but the full plate types are less likely to get use out of that...