Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Prepared Spells and the Sorcerer

As it stands with prepared spells, players aren't required to select their spells for the day (as they would be in real DND), which compromises the appeal of choosing sorcerer over wizard, druid, or cleric. What's the consensus of this among the players? Should we be prompted to choose spells every rest, or should we be allowed to switch spells in the middle of the day? The whole premise of this rule is that it takes time to prepare these spells. Some spells can be performed as rituals which also take considerable time to cast. Since BG3 doesn't operate on a solid timetable with time limits or even distinct times of day, it would be impossible to follow this rule exactly. What are our thoughts?

Mainly, I'm hoping that when the major update/rework to spells and casting comes down to us, part of it will include making prepared caters only able to change their prepared spells when you're in the long rest camp zone, so that non-prepared casters aren't overborne in every way by 'prepared' casters.

Given that long resting doesn't take any significant amount of resources or affect ~anything (e.g., random encounters, time passage), requiring players to long rest before preparing new spells only takes player time and clicks. Now, there's an argument for using tediousness as a way to discourage players from doing something, but this doesn't work for preparing spells because it encourages long-rest spam.

The best solution is obviously for Larian to come up with some way of better representing an adventuring day. But if Larian keeps the long-resting/time passage/fast travel system exactly as it is currently, I see a partial solution.
1.) All spell effects cast by Prepared Caster, if they choose to re-prepare spells, are ended. Including spells that last the whole day. This represents the wizard sucking all possible expended ambient energy back into them in order to re-prepare their spell list.
2.) Some areas restrict this ability. E.g., trying to re-prepare spells in Waukeem's Rest will result in a pop-up: "Preparing spells takes time, and you are currently in an area where time is important."
Hag lair: "Preparing spells requires time spent vulnerable, and you don't feel safe enough to do so." This could match up with areas where fast travel is prohibited and/or long resting once you reach that area would advance effects.

+1

I really hope that spell preparation will require to long rest.

The camp should be more than a hub in which you restore your spellslots, your health and in which you sometimes talk a bit with companions.
It should be a location in which you really plan your next day and in which you think about what you have learned during your day.

That's exactly what preparing spell is - choosing something that looks more powerfull, more appropriate to your next goal or that would create better synergies with your party members.
I'd also like if we were only able to level up at camp but that's something else.

It also have consequences on the class uniqueness as OP said but on the other hand...
the game is not easy at all and some combats are really really (really) hard if you don't exploit one of the OP mechanics...

What if you loose a combat and want to try with other spells ? Are you going to click the sleep button, change your spells then click the bed 2,3, 4 times ?

Planning ahead is in the DNA of the Wizard. You have to make choices what to prepare based on what you know and predict about your immediate future.

What needs to happen is Long Rest being more restricted than it is in patch 5 so those choices carry weight.

Then, if you don't like those restrictions and playing a thinking Intelligence based class >> Sorcerer is for you with fun spontaneous casting and cool heritage.

Strong class identity is what makes a class based system fun in the first place. If you start blending abilities and playstyles of different classes, you might as well start cutting entire classes from the game.

Definitely.

If Larian has any sense, they will for once try to implement a much more balanced system than what has been haphazardly put together so far. Lack of balance = lack of real choice, so I strongly hope the Sorcerer will come bundled with comprehensive changes and tuning of for existing systems - such as the camp supplies. This includes making camp supplies a resource with roleplaying implications such as volunteering supplies to refugees/needy people (with further story developments at a later stage). Would really like some "good-aligned" player agency when it comes to actual roleplaying - as opposed to enriching yourself by robbing everyone blind risk-free.

I'm liking all of these replies.


+1

I thought it was hilarious when Sven stole those boots from the poisoned Gnome in the Myconid Colony, but it was also a bit underwhelming that no one came to her aid when she's supposedly surrounded by friends.


I think losing and learning how to deal with certain new enemies is a big part of what makes the game fun. An opportunity to get swept and be forced to change strategies is great. That being said, some warning or tips for success on these new enemies would also obviously be appreciated: for example, asking questions to knowledgeable NPCs or finding texts that reveal enemy vulnerabilities.
I really like these ideas. There are clearly many ways the developers could homebrew this without having to create a day/night system if they don't want to.

So they didn't fix the Wizard preparation exploit.

Gale can still cast Mage Armor and unprepare it afterwards to get a free extra spell slot. Same with every long lasting buff. They are essentially always memorized and free to use.

All non-combat utility spells like Detect Thoughts, Knock, Darkvision, See Invisibility etc. etc. are essentially extra spell slots and always available for free.

At this point, why are they keeping spell preparation in at all? It's just extra tedium of having to do more clicks before and after you cast one of the free spells. Just let Wizards have their entire spellbook prepared at all times. That's what their system aims for, really. Just like in DOS.

Awww maaaaan... I really hoped this patch would fix that. At least DoS didn't give you enough money to let every character learn every skill. Gale has enough money and scrolls in act 1 to learn almost every level 1 and 2 spell in the game.

I don't believe the Wizard exploit is an oversight or low priority fix anymore. I think it's intentional. Just like Wizards learning spells from other classes spell lists and non-caster classes being able to cast spells from scrolls.

I applaud Larian for their passion and many great things about the game. But combat and class balance/identity is something they can't seem to get right because they are obsessively trying to make D&D more like DOS. They should just let D&D be D&D and it would be a better game for it.

I rather doubt that raw would be a better game.
Especially since it is not a major problem.

Well, hard disagree. Unlimited long resting and unlimited spell preparation for Wizards go directly against D&D attrition based per/day design and create big balance problems which will be more and more apparent as the characters level up beyond 4 in the final game.

It is impossible to introduce a hard rest limit, which means that the balance will fall out of the window anyway (there is a way to do it, but Larian won't introduce it because players will eat them alive)
Even Owlcat has practically given up on any attempt to limit resting (this psuedo restriction in WOTR is no restriction if you can find items that remove corruption at every step.)
The current system is just more convenient but it has no effect on balance anyway as long as rest isnt heavy-restricted (which will not happen)

I agree on two counts : spell preparation can't be restricted to long rests at camp because that just encourages spamming long rests and Larian won't heavily restrict long rests. However, freeform spell preparation is only one factor in the imbalance between classes.

Druids, Clerics and Wizards can cast a prepared spell, unprepare it and keep the benefits. This works with, among other spells, Mage Armor, Barkskin, Protection from Good and Evil, Flame Blade... This gives the preparation spellcasters more available spells than what their spell limit would suggest, which is a distinct advantage over Warlocks and Sorcerers.

Wizards can learn any spell from any class. Given 150 gold and a few scrolls (Bless, Healing Word, Guiding Bolt), Gale becomes better than a Cleric.

Though, in DnD, ritual casting lets Wizards cast spells that haven't been prepared, it only works with selected spells and it takes 10 minutes. In BG3, preparing, casting and unpreparing a spell can be done with any spell and in one six-second turn. Also, ritual casting is a feat which should be available to anyone with enough Intellignece or Wisdom but doesn't exist in game. Again, Wizards are buffed while other classes are nerfed.

Even without fundamentally changing the resting system, some of these issues could and should be adressed.

The entire system is based around Long Resting so they had better find a way to make it meaningful. Otherwise they need to stop making D&D video games or fundamentally change how things work in digital. They already went that way with the Camping Supplies, it's just not enough of a price tag to discourage spamming Long Rests. They just need to push further to find a good balance. Less food, more expensive supplies, random encounters.. whatever.

Interestingly, you are ignoring the fact that no DnD game has limited rests.
No matter how they do it, as long as there is no hard rest or time limit in the game, it cannot be limited whether you want it or not.
Neither of these things are liked by the players so it is highly unlikely that larian would want to do something like this.
And as for random meetings, there is no one who could discourage rests due to the fact that they are random, which means that in the worst case you can always load the game. Another thing is that they are usually so easy that whether or not you rested does not matter.
At worst, they can become irritating over time.

Even if Owlcat whose games are aimed at more hardcore RPG fans has decided to remove the limited rest, do you really think Larian will go for some serious restrictions?

This is exactly the point of random encounters.

They create a sense of danger so players will think about the right moment to sleep (not too late, not too fast).
But they don't limit anything because you can always save/load if you're in a bad situation.

Random encounters aren't made to "limit" resting, they are made to make resting a gameplay mechanic rather than just a button.

Even with a D/N cycle they could not really apply RAW 1 long rest/day. What if we're just stucked ?

Keep in mind that we're only talking about random encounters during resting. Most peoole don't like them in exemple in WoTR (including myself) because you have wayyy too much encounter while you're traveling.

It's not really a problem while resting and it could be VERY cool in BG3 considering that the camp could handle scripted encounters rather than really random ones.

But what is the meaning of their existence? If they are difficult, the team during the rest will be annihilated, if they are easy, they will be literally a waste of the player's time on meaningless boring fights.
They also introduce one more problem. If you know that you can be attacked while resting, you will want to rest more often to be able to defend yourself effectively, which contradicts the goal of limiting the number of rests.
Unless it is supposed to work like in WotR, where during the whole game (I have over 200h on my account) I was not attacked even once while resting. But again, this is another dead system.

I think the supplies thing is a step in a good direction. Of course, I also believe that if a mechanic is "offensive to my sensibilities", like being able to rest whenever, I just don't use it. I can't even say how much dialog with the comps I've missed so far because my long rests are few, and far between during my sessions, even before camp supplies were added. With that in mind, I don't see the current system as problematic, and if I didn't read the forums, I wouldn't even know there were problems with it. When I read the descriptions on items, something I tend to do after a new patch, I notice how much they add to camp supplies, and realize that even with that, Long Rests are going to be limited by how much I pick up. It requires 40 supplies to do a long rest, and some of the stuff I've picked up, admittedly early on, adds 1 to 5 supplies. I haven't found enough supplies in the world yet to even add 1 long rest after I exhaust what each NPC has on them, so far. None of the Let's Play videos I've watched is rife with abuse of the system, so I'm left wondering if it's more an issue for those that bring it up all the time, than any real problem with the actual system.