Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Companion Stats and Weapon Choices

I would really like to see some of the stats on the Origin Characters tweaked.

Excepting Laezel, every companion character has a higher Dex than Str. This includes Astarion, Shadowheart, Gale, and Wyll.

Why does that matter? Good question.

Well, consider. Laezel starts as a two-handed weapon fighter, and I think that's great for her.

But that leaves a lot of Str based one-handed weapons laying around. Unless the player creates a Tav specifically designed for those weapons, they go largely unused. This is because every companion character is better off with a Dex based weapon, excepting Laezel, who uses a two-handed.

Instead, imagine if Shadowheart reversed her Str and Dex. That would give her a 14 Str and she would be able to use a one-handed Str based weapon efficiently. It would make her much more useful on the front line, and her ability to use a shield and good armor make up for the small reduction in Dex.

I get that Astarion is better off with Dex based weapons. That works fine.

But what about Wyll? If his stats were played with, he could have a higher Str and get his hands on a nice Longsword, making his "the Blade" title a bit more palatable. Right now he has a Str of 9. He could easily stand to lower his Wis from an 11 to a 10 and lower his Con from a 15 to a 14. Frankly, I think it would also be reasonable to lower his Int from a 14 to a 12 or maybe even a 10. This would leave plenty of points to bump up his Str and give him an opportunity to wield some Str based weapons.

This is an issue I haven't seen a lot of people posting about, but it's one that really bothers me as a player. I want so bad for my companion characters to be able to use some of these wonderful weapons laying around. I'd like to spread out the loot, you know? Instead, I'm giving everyone a Dex based weapon except Laezel who gets a Greatsword.

And honestly, even Gale could stand to have a better Str than 9. That way he'd have a reason to actually use a Str based staff from time to time.

I dare to presume that if Datamining is right ...
And we are suppose to get one Paladin/Barbarian Tiefling ... as we as one Human meele focused Ranger ...

There will be someone to use them.

As for Wyll ...
I still believe and want to believe that he is suppose to use Pact weapon.

All of the companion's stats are garbage. That's why I started making my own custom 4-man parties. Be nice if we could assign their points during char creation.

Shadowheart is a Trickster domain Cleric with Sleight of Hand Proficiency. She's meant to double as a Rogue. She needs Dex, not Strength. 14 Dex actually also makes her better at frontlining than Strength would.

A tanky melee Cleric companion with high Strength and Heavy Armor would be great. Dwarf, perhaps.

I really doubt we get more than 1 per class ... especialy right from the start. :-/
(Not even sure we get that much)

There is no option of getting more than 10 companions, too many possible permutations, and other costly problems like voice acting.
We will most likely end up with 8 (current characters + 3 from datamining), although there is still a chance that Larian will add at least one or two characters.

Shadowheart is a Trickster domain Cleric with Sleight of Hand Proficiency. She's meant to double as a Rogue. She needs Dex, not Strength. 14 Dex actually also makes her better at frontlining than Strength would.
/quote]

This, I agree. Shadow actually had different stats when the EA began -- the new ones are the result of us complaining that she wasn't very good at the whole "subterfuge" part of her persona. I wouldn't give up her new Dex score even for an unrawful Str of 16.

There are some good points being made here. I accept that Shadowheart's high Dex is fitting... although I don't think that makes her better on the front line, not at all. Two people mentioned that as if it's definitionally true, and I disagree.

I'm just frustrated that they're all higher Dex than Str. All of them. It's like whoever spread the stats happened to value Dex more than Str and ended up dumping Str in every companion build. Which makes a whole group of weapons in the game unusable if Tav isn't specifically built for them. That doesn't seem like the best approach to me.

Regarding companion characters that are yet to come: I look forward to the day when they arrive. Until then, all we can do is work with what we have.

Regarding Wyll having a blade pact: I hope something is done with that. The sooner the better. He's a great character in concept and design, but all of that gets ruined by the mechanic of actually playing him.

Also, one more thing. Someone mentioned that her new Dex came from complaints that she wasn't good at subterfuge. I don't follow. Her new Dex is lower than it was. She has a 14 in Patch 6. She used to have a 15. Her Dex lowered by one. Her Cha lowered by, I think about 5, from a 15 or so to a 10. Her Int went up by 2 to a 10. Her Con went up by 1 to a 14, which I applaud. But overall, I'd say the biggest change to her was actually an increase in Str. It jumped to 12. I was just hoping to see it get to a 14, but in fairness, I'm happy to see it higher.

You have to remember her original stats.
She initially had Dex 9. People complained about that and then it was changed by Patch 3 to 15.

Unfortunately this is just a thing with 5e: Dex is just a better stat than Str. Dex:
- governs an important (and most common?) ST
- can be used in many places instead of strength (e.g., resisting grapple and shove attempts)
- affects more skills than strength
- adds to your AC and initiative
- affects both ranged and melee weapon attacks and damage
- *cannot* be used for the strongest melee weapons - this is basically the only weakness
(I like Pathfinder's default rule that strength is always added to weapon damage rolls unless you acquire a feat allowing you to add dex to damage. And ranged weapons get no bonus to damage, unless they're composite in which case you add strength. These rules help make dex less OP compared to strength.)

Wyll needs Dex for AC; Warlocks only get access to light armor. If he actually ever lives up to his title, theoretically you want him in or near melee.
Shadowheart's change from Dex=15 to 14 doesn't actually affect much in game. Both give a +2 dex bonus. This change only affects ASIs/feat choice, as now she'd need to dedicate 2 points to increasing it to 16 instead of 1. But honestly, as a cleric she'd probably want to focus on Wisdom.

Ah, that makes sense. I stand corrected. I was thinking of her most recent stats.


In Baldur's Gate 3, I don't think it uses Dex in place of Str to determine the success of a shove. The strongest characters are the ones most likely to be able to shove a target. Being able to shove a target is a game changer on the front line of combat.

In addition to this, it directly impacts the character's jump. This is a big advantage. It helps enormously with mobility.

And on top of that, it gets the most out of the better weapons. And the better weapons... are much better, in my opinion. Shadowheart, for example, goes from using daggers to using Faithbreaker or the Shattered Flail. Because of this, she's doing more damage and better helping to control the field, especially when coupled with her spells.

Most of her ranged attacks are coming form her spells, which use her Wis, not her Dex. So not a big deal there. Certainly not in this game when it's relatively easy to long rest.

So what is she really losing? A point of AC and a point of initiative. Well, her AC is already pretty darn nice with her armor and shield. She can also eventually and theoretically take Heavy Armor and the Dex hit to her AC won't even register. The hit to her initiative is small and hardly noticeable, especially considering so many other companions have a high Dex.

As far as skills, the only ones that have any impact in this game on the front line (from the Str and Dex categories) are Athletics and Acrobatics. So the stats are one for one here, and the Str skill is actually better. Athletics affects the ability to shove and the ability to resist being shoved. Acrobatics only affects the ability to resist being shoved. Stealth and Sleight of Hand aren't particularly applicable to the front line. And for what it's worth, Stealth isn't that hard in this game no matter what your Dex is, especially since Shadowheart can give everyone a +10 with a concentration ability.

Maybe it's different in pen and paper tabletop settings. I don't know. I have done that in years, not since 3.5. But in this game, I don't think it's quite so clear that Dex beats Str when it comes to being in the front.

What do you base that on?

It comes down to very simple math. +1AC from higher Dex is the most important stat for a frontliner here. With a finesse weapon she has the same attack bonus and only 1 point of damage less than she would have with 14 Str and a mace. 1 point of AC > 1 point of damage, by a wide margin.

AC is king in combat.

I presented my argument in the comment just above yours. It probably posted while you were writing this comment.

To clarify, I meant that acrobatics is used to "resist (grapple and shove) attempts", not "resist grapple and [make] shove attempts". Do you have evidence that enemies resist shove attempts with athletics (or AC)? Last I played BG3 it didn't tell you the exact mechanics behind determining a shove success. (I also think that Shove should be a full action, in which case SH would never shove even with 18 strength)

Bigger weapons is something I mentioned. Though if we're limiting ourselves to 1H weapons (because SH wields a shield), the difference in damage is 1d6 (dex) -> 1d8 (strength) which is not much. I wasn't considering magic items in my analysis because you can apply magical effects equally to all weapons. If Larian is only giving us cool magic strength weapons, then we could equally argue that Larian should give us more finesse magic weapons instead of giving NPCs more strength.

Jump, yes that is a big one. Though honestly, out of combat, I think that BG3 should determine jump distance based on the highest STR-party member. Handwaive it as them using the Help action to their low-STR party members. In combat though, sure without many mobility spells SH would benefit from higher STR.

Why are you dismissing sleight of hand? It's very important for picking locks and stealing from merchants if you're in to that. It seems like you're entirely focused on combat efficiency, which is a large part of the game, but not all of it.

Finally, yes SH could take the Heavy Armor Feat (at the opportunity cost of a +2 increase to her Wisdom), but all heavy armors give disadvantage on stealth checks. This doesn't really make sense for her character: a trickery domain cleric/spy. And the initiative system isn't like divinity; characters in BG3 combat are sorted purely by their initiative scores, instead of alternating ally-enemy-ally-enemy as in DOS. So any initiative bonus helps.

That's what it says when you hover over the Athletics skill in the game. It says that it helps with both shove attempts and with resisting shove attempts. Try it in character creation. Hover over the skills.


This isn't entirely fair. Shadowheart doesn't have a lot of finesse weapon options due to her weapon proficiencies. It's not like she can use the rapier. She basically gets to choose from the dagger or the dagger. Regarding the available types of magic items, I'm just pointing out that the Str options are a lot better than the finesse options available to Shadowheart at the moment. I guess we can ask for better daggers to compete with all the other cool weapons, but shrug, I think the bigger weapons are always going to be cooler in the long run. They certainly are now, in my opinion.


Which goes straight to my point. I put forward the argument that it's not a given that Dex is better for front line combat, and I think I've made an effective argument. Again, it might be different in pen and paper, but when we're talking about this game, I think Str stands out.


Because my entire point was about front line combat. Sure, sleight of hand is occasionally useful outside of combat. I tend to prefer a rogue for that when I use it... but really, other than getting into locks, I don't think it's all that great a skill. Picking pockets almost always turns into save scumming, and that's not really my thing.


I'm just pointing out that she already has a great armor class, better than everyone else. Personally, I don't think that extra +1 makes up for the loss of strength, but going with heavy armor would help someone who thought otherwise.

I think the value of a +1 to initiative is being overstated. I've played through hundreds of hours of this game, and I've seen all sorts of initiative spreads throughout multiple combats. That +1 is hardly noticeable, in my opinion.

*

Again, my whole point is that it's not a given that Dex is better for the front line than Str. That was put forward by a couple of different people as if everyone naturally agreed, and it's not something I agree with, at least not in regards to this game. I think there's a lot to be said for a high strength in this game when you're talking about front line combat.

Ah, good to know! Yes that does significantly increase the importance of strength.

True, there is only the dagger. I always forget that the shortsword is not a simple weapon! So yeah that does make a bigger difference.

+1 does make a big difference in 5e with it's bounded accuracy, and the benefits to initiative are hard to notice in a video game. It's not like you're looking at all the initiative scores every combat! Over hundreds of hours, that +1 initiative has probably allowed SH to go before an enemy and/or ally 5-10ish times. Which is not insignificant! Being able to cast bless or move to a different position before enemies/allies can change the course of the fight. I disagree that the +X strength/damage would be better than +1 AC, but that's more of a personal preference.

Overall, I can agree that Str would be useful for SH. But since she's a trickster cleric, I wouldn't sacrifice any of her dex for an increased strength. Basically, I think that STR is only better for characters that will use 2H weapons and/or begin at level 1 with Heavy Armor Proficiency.

I think Shadowheart has good stats now that reflect her character well. Daggers and a Crossbow fit a Trickery Cleric like her the best thematically. Daggers can be concealed and that's what you generally use with poison, which Trickery Clerics get at level 8 with Divine Strike. If Larian handles that ability like other poisons and applies it to both hands, dual Daggers will also give her a good damage output. Then there's Broodmothers Revenge which synergizes with dual daggers and her healing spells. I imagine she would fight like Loki, not with some clumsy warhammer.

They need to upgrade her custom armor into a Breastplate though so it doesn't get switched out with the first Scale Mail you find. Her armor even looks like a Breastplate more than anything else. If Lae'zel gets a Half-Plate I can't see why not.

And you're right, I do concede this point. She is a trickster cleric, so the high Dex does make sense.

Still, I long for at least one companion character who can make use of some of these Str based weapons. I may just have to wait for new companions to be introduced.

I strongly agree. I don't use mods, and I'm so worn out on the scale mail already. I'm really looking forward to new armors in the game.

Another reason that Dex is better for frontlining when you're a Cleric (or any caster, really) is that not getting hit is particularly important when you're likely holding a concentration spell. Sure, the concentration check may save you... But why rely on that when a your AC means a lesser chance of having to risk it at all?