Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback This doesn't feel like a Baldur's Gate game (or D&D)

'Cult classics' are a thing. Planescape: Torment has great writing, but I wouldn't call the entire game a masterpiece. I'd say it has great writing. Most people I talk to would say that. Vampire Masquerade: Bloodlines has great options for roleplaying, also unbalanced and buggy AF. People usually own that when recommending and I never hear it called a 'masterpiece.' Fallout: New Vegas is another one. Even things that legitimately defined genres, like Diablo 2 don't get called such lofty words lightly.

I agree. BG3 has more flashy, sensory overloading content than fights that mechanically engage the brain.
First playthrough was fun but i couldn't dare another go.
Completing the neural network puzzle brought a strange rush though (idk if it was the voice in background).
10/10 game for first playthrough.

Pretty much. Previous BG games did not have flashy graphics so they had to score with writing and story.

BG3 has bad writing and story and tries to distract from that with animations and sex.
Yes, that wows people that have never played an RPG in their life, but not the people who played the old masterpiece and recognize BG3 for the poser it is.

I do think you are omitting things BG3 does well. Its systems are comprehensive and its design does allow from really impressive player choice and reactivity from system perspective, even if narratively they might not be terribly interesting.

Oh no! No hate against Larian. This game is a master piece of art. I doubt we would get any expansions for this game apart from definitive edition with modding tool kit, however i would wish Larian stick with DnD and give games showcased in portal chamber in house of hope ASAP as well! Those games would appreciatively cover shortcomings of this game lot of which are complained about in forums...

I think that while the main story's writing is rather poor and clearly unpolished, there's plenty of character writing that's solid and enjoyable. There is a version of this game that doesn't emphasize the main story as much and instead leans on characters and exploration that is far better than what we have now.

To be honest I always felt that way about BG1+2. Never that interested in the main story; it was carried by the exploration and the characters.

All of this I like and agree with. It is honest, and it gives consideration to how others might see things differently from yourself, and that those other perspectives and perceptions are legitimate and valid.

I don't know if this allowed by mod or not but allow me to inform "muh RTwP" folk of this Kickstarter project:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/grapeocean/black-geyser-dlc-tales-of-the-moon-cult?ref=6hhijf

Black Geyser (game already exist) is a RTwP game that inspired by ye olde Badurian's Gata (specifically the original one). It is not popular and thy have been struggling since Day 1, but depsite their financial struggle, the game got released and it was, in all account: "Good".

But apparently RTwP is so niche, the market cannot sustain the company, thus they need help to release their DLC.

I personally like the game, it might be not the best game ever but with its limitation it had done splendidly.

Great find, thanks for pointing it out. BG3 has awaken among many of us the return to our first love, the CPRG and finding there are so many that have slipped under the radar is a gold mine to me. One thing I would wish however is the RTwP design go away. Either be real time or turn based.

Thanks for posting this. I love this game; I supported its original KS; and I too have been advertising this KS for the DLC project wherever I can.

Sorry, but I don't get this. What's the difference between a game being RT and RTwP? If you play a RTwP game without pausing it, you get to have your RT game. Pausing is optional. Why would you want to take that option away from people like me who love it and want it?

For me it is hassle of needing to pause. If I get distracted the game could keep running while I am looking away.

IF I'm not mistaken, BG1 & 2 are not really RT, they are also based on initiative and rounds. Only, the rounds follow eachother without pause. So your archer rolls initiative and does nothing until it is his turn in the round, shoots his arrow and then does nothing again until his turn in the next round.

Correct. And this was also the case with the NwN games, and is the case with the RTwP option in the two Pathfinder games.

You do realize the only game type this applies to is pure turn based, even though you said full real time was fine, correct?

Depends on the game type. For a CRPG solo play with party dynamics I feel like (personal opinion) that turn base is better. I love hearing people refer to the fact RTwP was used in the earlier games. When those games launched a LOT of us begged for a turn based option instead.

The idea of RTwP is not in itself bad, it is just a lot of us came from Table Top gaming so the game play dynamic felt off. The idea of RTwP is that the events of the turn happen purely simultaneously so you use the pause to set the action and then unpause to see the effect. I am sure there are many that like it and that is cool, but I feel if you have that dynamic you should allow for a pure turn based mode as well.

As I said the nostalgia crowd however, I feel, are either look back with rosed colored glasses or did not play when these games launched because I recall the various BBS and other forum discussion groups begging for turn based solutions.

...your opinion is noted, but that does not answer the question in any fashion.

Your response was the hassle of pausing. Which is something you need to do in RT as well, as per the initial question was about RT vs RTwP as was mine, not about who felt what way about Turn Based Combat. And as an aside, as I do expect you to answer the actual question, the more considerate, inclusive opinion would be hoping for turn based to be included as an option more regularly going forward instead of forcing it on others because you don't like manually pausing.

BG3 has actually made me think that RTWP with a turn-based option might be needed.

Let me put it this way. During important fights, I think turn based is clearly the superior option. But not every fight is going to be an important fight. Some fights *in every game* are going to be easy fights. In fact, some fights that are important fights on some playthroughs, are going to be easy fights on other playthroughs (like if you explore more and get to a higher level before you hit them.) And for the easy fights, turn based becomes tedious. It would be much better to have a real-time option to mow through them quickly. The alternative is to intricately balance every fight in the game, including things like level scaling, so that they feel important.

The problem is that it's not simply having it as an option; switching between real time and turn based has big effects on the game. For one, turn-based almost always ends up being much easier. Especially in a high-information environment like BG3. Simply being able to target enemies, knowing their turn order, and exactly how much health they have, so that you can take them out before they can even have a turn is *huge.* You get hit FAR less than you would in a real time environment. Going from turn based to real time really changes the dynamic of combat. Thats why I always thought that the best RT system would be one designed from the bottom up to be real-time, rather than an adaptaton of a turn-based system. Deadfire did that. Then they were pressured to add a turn-based mode, because of DOS2, and we got to see how janky the reverse was, too: Going from a real-time system to a turn-based system, when things were balanced around the idea of real-time combat, REALLY screwed things up.

But still. Though I think turn-based is superior for the battles where it really matters, BG3 convinced me more than ever of the value of RTWP. There needs to be a way to get through the easier combats quickly.

I played BG1 but didn't get very far into it, and one of the reasons was the RTWP. Now maybe if I had persevered longer and gotten to understand it better, it might be different, but I don't like it and would certainly not have bought BG3 if it had not been turnbased.
That said I understand the reasoning behind switching to some kind of auto-mode for "easy" battles. On the other hand you would have to do all kinds of strategy setups, e.g. to prevent your lvl 5 wizard from expending his only fireball slot on a group of spiders.
(I know you set up some priorities for several actions for every character in BG1, but I never got as far as Lvl5 characters, so not sure how you would protect spell slots from being used unnecessarily)