Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Grymforge exploration cheese

Perhaps it's intended, but I feel like there isn't very strong telegraphing about how one is intended to get from one area to another in the Grymforge. The most straight forward way I found to get to the forge portion is to use jump spell to send one character across a big gap, and then cheese the quick travel point on the other side to get the rest of the team over there (e.g., from a corner of the area where the gnomes are digging Nere out). It feels a bit abusive to be using quick travel mechanics to explore. Quick travel should be a time saver and not a means to explore. I'm guessing there is an "intended" path to the forge region, but it was not apparent to me while exploring.

This is something I did regularly in DOS2 as well with the teleport pyramids, but there it seemed an intended mechanic because the teleport pyramids were a mechanic that did not require the use of game menus to explore. I get that movement cheese is a big distinctive aspect of Larian games, but I feel like the "intended" path should be hinted to a bit more strongly and/or there should be a mechanic outside of game menus that enables characters w/o movement skills to follow the ones that do have movement skills (e.g., string a rope across a gap, teleport pyramids).

I got there by going through the passage that the Duergar are trying to get the rothe to break through.

Larian definitely wants players to play with skills at their disposal, rather then always providing straight A-B path - I appreciated that aroudn their games, though I still feel the overtop nature of some of the skills feels a bit out of the place here.

In my case I used Laez to operate cranes and move the rest of the party over - then she joined them using Gith superman jump ability. I went back using quicktravel.

I felt like cheating jumping to the Forge with Lae'zel and then teleporting everyone else in through the waypoint. And it triggered the following:

The teleport system for fast travel does not make sense. The destinations do not make sense. The placement and frequency don't make sense. No one would build a teleport system to cover a distance of a few minutes walk in the wilderness. The rest of the world not using these extremely powerful and unlimited teleporters especially does not make sense. Being able to escape a non-escapable location, like a small platform hanging in the air or a rock in a sea of lava, by teleporting to a waypoint doesn't make sense. Teleporting out of the Underdark doesn't make any sense if you just jumped down a hole and have no idea where you are.

It's a weird mish-mash of a player convenience game feature mixed with an unnecessary magical in-game explanation. Magically teleporting all the time just for fast travel really takes the magic out of teleporting. It also takes the traveling and sense of distance out of adventuring.

And finally, magical teleporting is not the primary means of travel in Faerûn. And BG3 should respect that.

It could have been accelerated movement on a map and it would have made perfect sense.

Reaching the Forge could have been done in many other ways without involving a cheaty nonsensical magic portal system. How about a rope?

I didn't need to teleport to get to the forge. It's not required.

But if someone did do it that way, I don't see a problem with it.

I enjoy the teleport feature in the game. It improves the quality of life. In addition, I like the way it's flavored as old Netherese magic.

As for the distance between places, I suspend disbelief and accept that the distances are condensed so we don't have characters running in this and that direction for five hours at a time just trying to get somewhere.

To each their own, of course.

I like the teleport system, but it would make more sense if you had to walk to the nearest teleport site to use it. I understand why they don't work like that because I think the game assumes that you DO that travel and just makes you skip it as something that would be a bit of a slog otherwise. So, I too suspend disbelief and accept it. Of all the things that could be changed for the better, that would not be something on the top of my list. JMO.

I had the exact same experience as OP, and I really disliked it.
Important area should never be only available if all your characters have the good spells/features/items or through teleport runes.

A locked gate with a lever inside to open it would be better. This way you could explore with a character that has special abilities and that would open the path to the others rather than having to "exploit" the convenient runes.

I dont quite understand what do you all mean by "exploit" rune? O_o

I simply used slow fall and jumped there from that lever that was controlling the platform abowe diging Gnomes. o_O
Everyone followed my jump ... Lae'zel was pushed to lava by landing Astarion ... i went to camp, ressurected her through skeleton, used turn based mode ... jumped separately this time (after i cleared landing zone ofc.) ...

And voila!
Everyone there, no rune used. O_o
Seems to me you presume kinda too much if you think that Larian did only one route to follow ... really we should know better by now. :-/

I personnaly never found another route than the one I used and my characters were not all able to jump on the platform. I really struggle to reach that location but I guess they'll change that, eventually.

That's what their datas are usefull for.

Somewhat yes and somewhat no. You can interpret the game as assuming you actually DO that travel, but it doesn't actually check. E.g., you can fall down the spider hole to the underdark with no way back up and not having found any underdark waypoints, and still teleport out. Even though the path you'd take find the nearest waypoint would likely lead you past an encounter.

I'd prefer if the game checked the autopath to the nearest (known) waypoint and either interrupted this movement with an encounter that you trigger or said "no path to waypoint" if it was impossible to manually walk+jump to it. This would be the best of both worlds - the occasional tension of having delved too deep for your safety combined with removing the slog of always walking back to a waypoint.

I can screen them fo you if you wish

So far i have found 3 ... but one is for distant misty step sorcerer only.
(Maybe Lae'zel would be able to Jump there too ... with Jump activated, dunno.)

..which all leads back to that the fast travel system should have been just that.. a fast travel system. With waypoints.

The runes could have been mundane markings and just be access points for near-instant fast travel that would assume you actually walk that distance and check the route. You could even have (random) encounters interrupt the fast travel to keep things exciting. There's nothing more boring than the BG3 world after you clear the encounters and it's completely and utterly dead. Pretty, fake, lifeless.

But, as usual, Larian had to crank a common fast travel feature up to 11 and make it an actual ancient magical Netherese bla-bla teleportation system for no reason. Never mind that it doesn't make any sense in the game world. Trying to make it ultra cool actually makes the whole thing really lame.

As far as i know (and i admit its possible that i actualy dont ) teleportation is nothing odd in DnD settings ...
So what exactly is the problem here?

I mean yes its kinda odd that someone actualy bothered to give teleportation runes so close together (i mean come on ... first one on the beach and second one right on the cliff abowe it? :D) ...

But beyond that?

Or boring and anoying ... its matter of perspective.

Well, yes, but there is also no reason to get there again ...
I mean, why would you return ... litteraly anywhere?

The only place that gives you any reason to return is goblin camp, and only for "keep searching for entrance to the Underdark" ... meaning its still pushing you futher ...

The issue is not that there isn't a "fair" path to the forge (I've since seen videos of people doing it). The issue is that the most intuitive path to the forge is cheesing the fast travel point rather than using the "fair" method. Dungeon construction should encourage follower paths as discussed here:


the locked gate with the lever is just an example. But there should be some less cheesy game mechanic that enables party members to follow another member who has some sort of mobility skill (jump, misty step, etc...). That can be done through dungeon design (e.g., the locked gate) or ability/item design (e.g., teleport pyramids, "50 feet of rope").

I don't understand. Why isn't the waypoint a fair path?

Let's say Lae'zel uses her psionic jump ability. Finds a waypoint. Then the other characters can teleport through the Netherese waypoints.

That's the function they serve. It's not just a video game conceit; it's an actual portal that connects to other portals, but only when you (or at least one person in your party) knows where they are. Why does it work that way? I don't know, it's magic. This is a fantasy game.

So it seems to me that the path in question is as fair as any other.

*

That said, I do have a problem with waypoints when they don't make sense. It's rare, but they can sometimes be abused.

You jump into the hole in the Matriarch's spider pit, for instance, and find yourself in the underdark. You can't technically climb out, but you can fast travel to an earlier waypoint.

That shouldn't be allowed, and I think it's a mistake.

For what it's worth, the game tries to stop that from happening elsewhere. Notice what happens if you follow Nettie into the back chamber and then you end up killing her while the stone doors are closed. The game won't let you fast travel via the waypoints because there's no way to get to a waypoint to initiate the teleportation. You have to figure out how to get out of the room first, by opening one of the doors.

Because those fast travel points are a lore-straining convenience. Netherese magic" Fie!

Why is it different ? It's exactly the same to me.
A convenient magical runes that allow you to go where you want and when you want even if there are no pathes (or if you haven't found one yet).

If they can teleport through the Netherese waypoint to the forge, why couldn't they to the surface or anywhere else ?
Don't get me wrong, I agree that we probably shouldn't be able to teleport so easily to the surface when we're in the underdark. But in my opinion it doesn't make more sense that we teleport to cross walls / lava / obstacles.

But aren't the netherese portals just a "video game conceit", actually? Right now, only the PCs (including companions) even notice these portals, let alone use them. Why don't the tieflings use them to travel? Why don't the druids use them to aid in bringing back forage? Why doesn't Minthara (a True Soul, if you want to claim that only those with tadpoles can use these portals) use them for hit-and-run tactics? They seem to exist just for player convenience, and thus are closer to an out-of-game-world mechanic than a true part of the world.

I'd be more fine with the portals if there was some in-game explanation for why only our party can see and use the portals. Even a single line from Gale "it seems to resonate with our tadpoles...hmm there's some hidden magic here that is allowing us to see these sigils!" would be nice.That's good. I'd like to see more of this.

A key point about the portals (and any teleportation circle in D&D lore) is that you have to know the destination. So it somewhat makes sense that, once Lae'zel has discovered the waypoint rune, that she+the party can all teleport to a common location, then she can teleport the entire party to the new waypoint.

Oh yes, tadpole !
If someone have an information, everyone in the party has the information !

So the way I understand it is that you have to actually walk through one portal to come out of another portal. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I think it works.

If you're in the underdark after jumping down a hole, and you don't have another portal in front of you yet (meaning you haven't found an underdark waypoint yet), you can still portal back up to the surface via fast travel. That shouldn't technically be possible if you don't have a way to get to a waypoint to walk through it to come out at another waypoint.

That's why I think it's a mistake.


You make a good point. Personally, I appreciate that the player convenience is at least wrapped up in a bow and presented as flavor in the setting.

But yes, I would prefer it if I knew others were using the portals also. I could imagine quests along those lines, things like bartering the location of the Grymforge Waypoint. I imagine that would be valuable to the right people.

Or points in the future where forts have been built around strategic waypoints, guarding against anything that might come out, like an old Netherese assassin on the hunt.