Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Telescope Change

Okay, I like the idea of being able to look through the telescope up on the hill, but I don't like that it shows you the burning inn. The dragon flying around and the burning nautiloid is fine, though I think that the nautiloid should stop burning after you long rest for the first time. I could maybe see it burning for a few days, but that thing never goes out. Can we at least have it stop burning after 2 or 3 long rests.

Either way, the main point I'm trying to make here is that if you let me look through the telescope at the burning inn but I don't actually get there for several more days, that is hugely immersion breaking. I would rather spy on something else then on something that I may or may not get to for a couple of days.

What about having me look at a couple of things that are more interesting? The dragon is cool and I like that. Don't change that. But how about when I look at the nautiloid I see maybe a goblin milling about picking through the debris. Then suddenly, an intellect devourer jumps out of hiding and possesses the goblin. Something like that would be really cool. I don't ever have to even run into that goblin, but watching something like that happen would be way more interesting.

And then maybe when you look to the right, instead of seeing the burning inn, what if we instead saw the gnolls attacking some random traveler on the road? You could even make it seem like maybe it was Scratch and his master. The image could be somewhat blurry like the Dragon when you originally look at it so that the player can't be quite sure if it is Scratch and his master. That way, regardless of whether you reach that point in the game on that same day or not, it doesn't matter because you aren't quite sure if it was them or not. It could have been them or it could have been another traveler with a dog attacked by the gnolls.

Something like this would be way more interesting and less immersion braking. Most of the time, I don't get to the end for several days after I first arrived at The Grove.

So ... huge building with barn and stuff burning for several days is immersion breaking ...
But dragon hanging in air at the exactly same spot, just to flap his wings and fly away, every single time you look aproximately his way for several ... actualy the exactly same amount of days ... is okey? O_o

Lol. Ok. You right. They should not have him appear more than once

I think it comes down to what is the purpose of that telescope. Since we are unable to carry around and look through telescopes in game at will, that object has a specific design and intended purpose. If the intended design is information gathering for the PC, it would be important for the PC to be able to access the telescope at any point in time barring a definitive end to whatever event is taking place. Now if the dragon is there after you confront the Githyanki patrol (the dragon rider ALWAYS flies away), I can see that being an issue. I have tried very hard to put out the fire at the inn, but there are specific points where flames just continuously spawn. I think it may be important to keep in mind that when you look through the telescope, you are actually looking at cinematics and not the actual world from your point of view.

So in the event you use the telescope and spot something you "identify that this exists" and you're suggesting that what you spot should disappear after a few days, if not sooner. In that case, I would be able to fly my raven familiar around the entire map, spot it all, and then progress events forward in an untimely manner; thereby removing vast story potential. The amount of "per day" facilities that would have to be incorporated to create a seamless and timely manner of storytelling to that level of immersion would have us receiving the game in 2100. The endless possibilities of interactions in the open world that can be drawn by the mind at any one point in time using the "I see it, it exists" method would require more resources than what are currently available; at this point I'd say sure, maybe tweak it a LITTLE bit, but you'll have to draw the line somewhere and identify the sole purpose of some objects in game.

No. What I was suggesting is that the telescope show you things that don't have any bearing on time. That's the whole point of this post. Instead of showing me the burning in which I may not get to for several days, show me some gnolls on the road attacking random people or just roaming about. You know, something that could be there anytime I look at the telescope. The reason I didn't have as much of a problem at first with the dragon is that it is believable that the Dragon might be still flying around in the sky searching for me days after I looked through the telescope. Until I confront the Patrol on the road, it is plausible that the dragon could still be flying around in the sky. The nautiloid however should burn out after a day or two and stop smoldering and smoking, and so should the end. So if you don't want those two to be time-based, don't show me them in the telescope. It is really immersion breaking that there is no sense of time in this game. The way the game is built, it is as if everything happens all in one day. From the time I crash on the beach to the very end of the Early Access, it's like it's all one day.

That said, you can give players a sense of time simply by making sure that you don't have moments like this where the player sees a burning building and then days later finally gets there to still find it burning as if it just started burning. That's what's immersion breaking. Most of the time, I don't get to the end for several long rests after I've been to The Grove. So seeing the burning building on the first day I've been at the Grove only to get to the end three days later to find them all standing about as if the goblins just attacked it and set fire to it, that just messes with the whole reality.

So my suggestion is to provide things to look at that are not time based or time sensitive. Let me see spiders lurking around the village or the surrounding Forest attacking wild animals and dragging them off, or let me see goblins attacking red caps near the bog, or let me see something of that nature.

Your journal keeps day to day conversation logs so you can track what happens on what date. My point is that the telescope is intended to guide to players to interesting locations. These locations are at the far ends of the map. Fires also have the potential to burn for hundreds of years - as long as there is a fuel source. Who's to say that the people outside haven't been actively attempting to fight the fire before you got there and have thus far been unsuccessful? The lack of time indication at the inn allows the player to rationalize their own theories.

Speaking strictly from an immersion perspective, if you see a burning Inn one day one and on day 5 see that the inn is still on fire, it's STILL on fire - the devil in the details is as in depth as your imagination. You can say, "this doesn't make sense, fire needs fuel" and I'll ask, "what's the inn made out of? What happened to that shipment of firewine at the inn? What about the numerous kegs of supposed firewine and alcohol at multiple locations throughout the inn? What sort of fire is this?". I'd put forth the concept that your attachment to reality is what broke your immersion, not a fantasy world where most actions rely on dice rolls.

Let's think about the Gith'yanki event. The cutscene has a man saying, "this is your last warning". It is within the realm of possibility that they have been arguing or maybe drew a stalemate until the exact time of your arrival. Maybe The Flaming Fist doesn't afraid of anything.

The story implications for goblins attacking redcaps at the bog are vast - that shows conflict with two decided forces and would make you question why. What about when you get to the bog and all you see are sheep? Where are the bodies? Those spiders in the forest, where are they? Why doesn't the PLAYER see the animals in the forest that the spiders are hunting?

Are there any other points you can think of that are strictly time sensitive once you scout it and fail to make sense once you arrive?

Im not sure it would help with time sense ...
Cant hurt it either tho.

What i mean that things will still be happening coveniently "when player arives" ... therefore you will not know for how long is it burning, but still goblins will be celebrating sucessfull raid on inn, while flaming fist will still days later trying to break the doors at that inn. :-/
You just remove single case of observation out of many ... but the problem it caused remain the same. :-/

To solve this Larian would need to make a REALLY bold move ... ald let some small (or just parts) quests happened offscreen.
Like:
When you go to the swamp first ... you will see Ethel arguing with those brothers.
When you go risen road first ... you will see those Zhentarims fighting gnolls.
When you go to waukeens reast first ... you will see flaming fist breaking the doors to get in.
Of course no matter wich way you choose, the others becoma unaviable and you will only find concequences ... brothers bead, zhentarims eaten, flaming fist out (except the mourning one) and both people from inn burned.

Personaly i would love it ... but many people would not.

This is first and foremost a story driven game with plot and plot devices. Try rationalizing while immersed. I'd say Larian's done an excellent job at allowing windows of creativity through story implications. The situation you're presenting reminds me a lot of someone standing in one place for a long time and wondering why they're still there.

I won't argue with the rest of your post, you have some good points, but just for your information: the journal dates are a lie since they are not actually connected to anything else. I wrote some details about it in this thread https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=97909&Number=776950#Post776950

When you arrive at the inn, the battle has just ended. How do you know this? The inn's fire hasn't spread to all the rooms. Benryn is still pinned beneath a beam. The Flaming Fist still haven't busted open the door to get in to save the counselor. There are SO many implications that the battle for the inn was supposed to have just ended and the duke taken away.

So, immersion-wise, how does that make sense if I see the inn on fire and burning and I don't get to the inn for 3 or 4 long rests/days? That makes no sense from a story perspective.

I will give you that the nautiloid could burn for a long time. It's a stretch, but I could let that one slide. After all, it's an alien vessel that has who knows what kind of material and fuel inside. So, that thing could rage on for a long time.

And, again, the dragon I could see flying around for days. That's why I didn't have a problem with the dragon to begin with. The dragon is searching for you, so if it hasn't found you, it'd still be flying around in the sky days upon days later.

However, the inn is the primary focus of this post because it would not burn for days. It's a primarly wood structure, so it would spread pretty fast, as it does when you actually do get there, and it would burn to the ground within hours. Besides that, again, the story implications are that the fight just ended when you get there. So, you would not see it on fire days before you got there only to find a bunch of people trying to bust the door down to save people who just got trapped inside.

All I'm suggesting is that if Larian doesn't want to implement time in the game, which is fine, they need to not do stuff like this. It's completely weird and immersion-breaking. I see an inn burning and rest for 2 or 3 days and it's still burning and people are still waiting for me to show up to save them from being pinned beneath beams? No. Makes no sense at all. Even IF you tried to make me believe that it was smoking and on fire because the goblins started attacking it on that day but didn't actually finish the attack until 2 or 3 days later, that still wouldn't make sense. It's obviously not a major battle. There wasn't THAT many dead bodies to imply that the fight was massive and required several days before it was concluded. There are no barricades erected to show that the Flaming Fist were keeping them out for a time, or anything.