Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) Suggestions ALT key is a spoiler

One thing that bugged me about Divine Divinity was that the ALT key spoiled a lot of the puzzles. You could find too many secrets by running around with it held down. There are entire suits of armour hidden in the wilderness from adventurers who have long starved to death or stripped to run away quickly. And of course there are the keys. I think that items should have a hidden flag so that Larian can really hide hidden items. Then they could hide keys under rocks and you wouldn't just have to press ALT to find them, you'd have to move the rock first so that it was normally visible. For items that are camouflaged, they would remain hidden until you float the cursor over them, then they would show up normally when you press ALT.

What do others think?

if you dont like it, dont use it. personally i think finding stuff is a pain in the butt. i like that my character can see things.

on the other hand...when you put the mouse over barrells, chests, etc... and it tells how many items are in it if any at all. thats just stupid.

I like using it because I have trouble seeing things amongst the dead bodies. Things like that should appear with the ALT key as a standard body search. And I use it with the keys because I can. I think some quests could be more interesting if the keys were kept somewhere interesting. A lot of the houses simply hide the key in or under something near the door. It would only take a few seconds to do a quick scan of the place. Something like the Dr. Elrath quest could have the key fall out of his pocket as he storms out of the house. If you see it happen, you can then float the cursor over it and pick it up, but it should be an observation thing.

I you had a hard time finding things among dead bodies than think of haow hard it would be to find anything without it at all, without the use of the alt key you would have to practily run you mouse over every square pixel of everything in the game

ALT-key should be in the game as there are visually impaired/challenged/plain lazy players(such as myself <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) who will definitely need it without combing through 1024 X 768 pixels(worse yet 1600 X 1200) 2 look for some dang scroll/key.

plus, i don't want another phantasmagoria pixel hunting nightmare please.

regarding gridlock's gripe on number of items shown when cursor rolls over the chests or barrels, well i kinda agree as it's stoopid 2 know what when all u do is point at it. but then u still want 2 find out what's inside so u bash them up anyway. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

What if items remained hidden until you passed within, say, 30% of your sight radius of them. So if you walked past a key on the ground, you would see the glint that occurs when an item is created and it would there-after appear when you pressed ALT. I just hate it that I can walk up to any locked object, press ALT and immediately know where to find the key to open it. It makes locked bonuses practically useless.

I agree that it helps for the lazy - I do it too. But it can't be that hard to click on half a dozen obvious locations around the locked object to see if you can find it. Those with lock-pick can give up and pick the lock. Those without lock pick can perservere for the key or give up. I have lock-pick (5) and have used it on about 4 things outside the theives guild because I can find all the keys. I've even found keys for some of the locked barrels! And none of it took any effort.

Perhaps this could be part of the difficulty setting. Easy and normal games could have the ALT key as it is now, but the Hard setting makes you look for things.

well that 30% sight radius limit on hidden stuff is nice if implemented. hopefully the glitter is obvious enough 2 not escape notice.

& as for hidden stuff in obvious places well, we've played DD enough 2 know that a lot of hidden stuff aren't hidden in obvious places such as vase, barrels, top of cupboards. elrath's key is among the least obvious hidden stuff.

Suggestion:
One of the following-

- When you kill a creature, you need to click on it to see it's inventory and take it's belongings
- When you kill a creature, you have to click on it to take it's belongings

Also I'd suggest to be able to drag bodies arround; as sometimes they fall in bad places (over trap doors and such).

the first one, but then all the creatures should be or movable or clickable with ALT cuz if you create a stack of corpses....

Best idea yet
I got stuck in a doorway and had to save and reload in order to move.

Personally, I don't think the ALT key is a spoiler - to me, it's just a neat tool.

Even *with* the existence of the ALt key we get soo many questions here in the Forum, "how do I get into Dr. Elrath's House ?"

Very true. I think the problem is that I have a habit of finding tricks and shortcuts which end up making the game too easy. It makes me good with RPGs and builder games. I'm terrible at RTS though. I can hardly work out those for the life of me.

Hi HEF,
I know what was bothering you and it bothered me too.
Firstly, the Alt key is critically essential to expose hidden doors and other objects, without which it is impossible to target such objects in an isometric P3D environment.
I also admit that Larian Studios succeeded in producing that effect superbly.

The only problem is that the Alt key push event was overloaded with more than one function.
The first function is critically important and I just defined it here above.
The second function is identifying weapons and armour statistics, which is although very nice it could have been even better if it was attached to another key so that the player is not forced to identify while searching for hidden items. This would allow us to save first before the random status “AXE” sever our heads. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Let us assign the two functions to K1 and K2.
K1 push down key event should trigger a method to expose hidden items without giving them any popup status.
K2 push down key event should trigger a method to display a popup status panel for every visible item not the hidden ones.
This means that I have to move or pick up hidden items to make them visible first and then push K2 to deside if I wish to pick it up for the keep or not.

Just a cent and a yen. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

they could also make it as in some other rpg's like lionheart, where you have a detect secret's doors, which you can give skill points to. So that most things are visible by pressing the alt key, but the secrets have to be find with the skill detect secret doors?

That could be useful. You could detect things over an increasing distance. You'd want to make it multi purpose, as it's a very medeocre skill on it's own. Perhaps it could uncover items, secret doors, and traps. Each of the above could have a hidden level (like the ID level) that you need to automatically find it, and you have to pass closer to the higher hidden levels to see them.

This automatic detection is exactly what takes the pleasure away from the player.
I do not need NOCANDO skills to move my mouse and test pixels for being hot on something in my view.
One of the pleasures of RPG is to investigate at your own leisure.
If there was a booby-trap and I triggered it without skill to disable it, then reloading the game is fine with me, but a skill to realise that there is something on the floor that I could move is rather silly.
Let us take a very common habit of looking under rocks, you could find a hint-full tagged key, a rune scripted paper or a scorpion that stings you, but they need no skill for moving the damn rock. You may need skills to figure out the door or chest of that key, a skill for reading the paper and a resistance to decide if you live or die but you do not need a skill to move the rock and find what is hidden under.
I want to be able to detect secret doors without skills, but opening it could be by another object manipulation or by means of a skill or whatever; however, detecting the secret door itself should never require a skill inside the game but rather a skill within the head of he who is sitting on your chair. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

You still could detect secret doors manually - it would just be harder as you'd have to find the switch. With the skill, you notice things that have been disturbed (keys under ro1cks) or that don't fit properly (inconsistant stonework for a secret door).

Also, the game is a role-player and people who don't have the patience to scan for secrets can play a character who can. The Know Creature skill is another good example. You can work out creatures for yourself and keep them all written down on paper and save a few skill points. Or you can play a character who can do that for you. I'm a scrawny b'tard in real life but I love swinging axes!

talking about ALT-key & skills to detect hidden stuffs, it reminds me of games that come with cheat codes. u know the cheat codes, & when u hit that proverbial situation between a steaming pot & a scalding pan, most people i know will resort to the cheat codes 2 survive.

so does that make cheat codes spoilers for being available in the first place?

DAD's ideas on limiting & separating the capabilities of ALT-key is good. that way looking for hidden stuff won't 'spoil' as much & u still get 2 hunt for that elusive key/scroll/something-that's-not-even-there.

handefood's idea on detecting secret doors manually is in Nox. what u do is 2 find destructible walls/enclosure to find such door. DD in fact implemented the non-tranparent-walkthrough door which was implemented only once in diablo2.

regarding detection of hidden stuff under rocks & stuff, yep, thing like that doesn't need skills. maybe for detecting & disarming traps.

Here's my idea.

Item of Kickbutt-Goodness is laying on the ground, obscured by a tree as the PC runs by..

I think if the item passes within a small radius of the PC, it should light up for as long as the PC stays within that distance like using the 'Alt' key. (this would simulate the PC noticing something strange laying on the ground, near him, as he passed)

I think that the 'Alt' key should be used for active searching.
An Example.. The PC must be standing still. (not running or walking) When the 'Alt' key is pressed, the screen goes darker except a ball surrounding the PC. Since the screen is now frozen, the mouse can be used to move the ball for an active search. When the ball crosses over the item, it is easily displayed within the ball. (this would simulate the PC standing and actively searcing for something different; the PC could rotate, or even follow the search ball slowly as if actually looking at the spot that the search ball is over)

The same idea could be used for secret doors as well.

I know this would take some serious coding, but I think it is the most user-friendly and realistic way possible.

Epideme

Welcome Epideme! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's not a bad idea. Do you think you should be able to move the cursor like a torch-light? Perhaps it should just be a stationary globe based on your sight and (currently non-existant) Search skill? Or the further you move the mouse from your character, the smaller the globe is?

I don't think coding would be too difficult (famous last words). Any item within the globe and within line-of-sight would glow. Most of the functionality exists already. I think that any items you've already run your mouse over or that are dropped by a fallen enemy should glow when you press the ALT key, regardless of where they are.