Larian Studios Forums General Chat Saddam is caught

Like I said, many of the educated poeple of Iraq fight against the US. They know this isn't only to free them from there tiran, Iraq was on of the most evolved countries in its region. Yes saddams evil regime has fallen, but don't forget your still dealing with Islam, Allah is the boss not saddam, The US aren't fighting for Allah so they will try to get you out. No the fear for saddam is gone, more Iraqis will the Islam.

thank you, elgi! so many people think there is a connection when there isn't.

Very well put, it is time for the US to back off the world. The problem is that the President must 'make a name' for himself that will go into the history books, but enough is enough.

After reading all these posts I feel a need to reply. @ Elgi, I am sorry you
"Hate" U.S. citizens. I am sure there are many many of us who would bring you in from the cold, and protect you despite your feelings for us.
I am not my goverment. I am a human being. I still feel great sorrow 2 years after 911. I don't ever want to see that happen to anyone ever again. In any country, any world.
I belive Bush stole the election, yet he stood up for the world on that fatefull day in 2001 and told the world that this is a war of the likes we have never seen befor. That these terrorists would be hunted down 1 by 1 if need be.
That is what is happening now. Saddam was a terrorist in his own country. He and his henchmen browbeat the population of Irac into submission by death,rape,prison,beatings, and horrors we cannot even imagine. He had the money to spred that horror all over the world. BTW, there is still alot of that money that is unacounted for. They are estimating the totals of bodies in the Irac mass graves at over 1 million. Men,women,children. I hear they were keeping shifts while they did it to. Truckload after truckload of people lined up and shot in the head. I guess the Poison gas wasn't fast enough or messy enough. Does this ring any bells? Unfortunately, the leaders and henchman of the Bathists (sp?) party are just a few bricks in this wall of hate. There are many many more.
Who would you sacrifice to have a safe world for your future generations? For your children? For their children? And theirs? The United States along with 60
other countries around the world are making the sacrifices of their lives to tear this wall of hate down. Hundreds in this coalition have died already, unfortunately many more will befor it is all said and done. I do not hate anyone. I hate the hurtfull reality these terrorist bring to our front doors. Yours and mine. None of us are immune. The sooner that reality sets in the better off the world is going to be. This hate cannot survive in a world that does not tollerate it! I as a American do not! I just want to say @ Nero and Lostlady, you have my love and support. I hate this war, but I love my neighbors. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

it just makes me sad to be hated for something our government did.

It makes me sad to think of all those who have died in this war and all those who will still die. I have family and friends there in Irac right now. I have friends who had loved ones die in 9/11. But no matter what people do..I can not hate them, they fight for what they believe in.

I don't know if I'm even making any sence so I'll stop.

and an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


i am not against the fact that saddam is bad. yes, he is. what makes me mad is that bush lied about his reasons for going into war. it wasn't about saddam, or freeing the iraqi people. it was about oil. it was about finishing what his daddy started. saddam and terrorism were just an excuse.
people died so that americans could drive around in their suvs and feel good about ourselves.
i am not against the troops. they're just following orders like they're supposed too. i am against the president, and his republican regime.

i am going to repeat myself because no one seems to be listening.
i know saddam is a bad guy. i know he did terrible things. but that is not the reason we went to war with iraq. we went because of oil, and solely because of oil. i oppose everything there because of the lies bush told. he has duped you into believing in his crimes.

"what difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
-mohandas gandhi

Yeah, I mean it's not like Japan sucker punched the US on December 7th by attacking Pearl Harbour and FORCING THE US INTO A WAR WE HAD BEEN STAYING OUT OF UP TILL THAT POINT!

What did you expect the US to do? Curl up like a bunch of nancy boys and start sucking our thumbs and crying?



Bush did not lie about his reasons for war. The reason we went to war is because we believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. So far, nothing has turned up. That doesn't make Bush a liar, it means he was wrong about the weapons of mass destruction.

It was *not* about oil or finishing his daddy's business. if all bush cared about was cheap oil he'd turn mroe towards alaska instead of embarking on a long war that would cost a whole lot more.



Maybe it's not that we don't care or understand that point, maybe we just *disagree* with it.

The way I see it, with Saddam gone it will drastcially cut down on the amount of Iraqi citisens who are killed by their own government.

I'd *really* like to know how saving millions of lives solves nothing. Please explain it to me, because the only way I can see that solving nothing is if the lives of the Iraqi people aren't important.

Japan was warned that the U.S. had the Bomb! Japan was told to surrender. They did not. The bomb was dropped. Japan was then told the U.S. had another bomb, and was told to surrender. They did not. The second bomb was then dropped. Japan surrenderd. To me it sounds quite a bit simmilar. Look at the financial powerhouse Japan is now. Do you think the Irac people can do that for themselves? I have great faith that they can.

there are theories that fdr knew about the attack on pearl harbor and let it happen so he had an excuse to join the war. i'm not saying it's true, i'm saying it's a theory.

as for how certain the wmds, check this out:
some selected text from http://billmon.org.v.sabren.com/archives/000172.html

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
[nocando] Cheney
Speech to VFW National Convention
August 26, 2002

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.
George W. Bush
State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
George W. Bush
Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003

I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now.
Colin Powell
Remarks to Reporters
May 4, 2003

I just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden.
Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne
Press Briefing
May 13, 2003

Do I think we're going to find something?? Yeah, I kind of do, because I think there's a lot of information out there."
Maj. Gen. Keith Dayton, Defense Intelligence Agency
Press Conference
May 30, 2003

It was a surprise to me then ? it remains a surprise to me now ? that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there.
Lt. Gen. James Conway, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview
May 30, 2003

here's some more interesting tidbits, from http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jun2003/wmd-j21.shtml

* The claim that Iraq has sought uranium from Niger, in west Africa—this proved to based on forged documents and was exposed as a lie nearly a year before Bush included the charge in his 2003 State of the Union address.

* The claim that thousands of aluminum tubes imported by Iraq could be used in centrifuges to create enriched uranium—debunked by the International Atomic Energy Agency as well as by American nuclear scientists.

* The claim that Iraq had up to 20 long-range Scud missiles, prohibited under UN sanctions—no such rockets have been found, nor were any fired during the military conflict.

* The claim that Iraq had massive stockpiles of chemical and biological agents, including nerve gas, anthrax and botulinum toxin—nothing has been found, despite searches at hundreds of sites targeted before the war by US intelligence reports.

* The claim that Saddam Hussein had issued chemical weapons to front-line troops who would use them when US forces crossed into Iraq—no such weapons were used and none were found when the Iraqi military collapsed under the weight of the US assault.

The Bush administration was reduced to citing the discovery of two tractor trailers near Mosul as proof that Iraq possessed mobile biological weapons labs—a charge that featured prominently in Secretary of State Colin Powell’s presentation to the UN Security Council on February 5. But no trace of a biological agent was found on the trucks, and the White House has been compelled to backtrack even on this threadbare claim, suggesting that the trucks may be evidence of a weapons “program,” not of weapons themselves.

March 30, 2003—On ABC’s “This Week” program, 10 days into the war, Rumsfeld reiterated the claim that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, adding, “We know where they are.”

"I'd *really* like to know how saving millions of lives solves nothing. Please explain it to me, because the only way I can see that solving nothing is if the lives of the Iraqi people aren't important." mickster

well it did solve something, but in implementing the methods which made martyrs out of the baddies, US admin has succeeded in making even more enemies & this time more fanatic or uneducated muslims will take up arms against US. & this is sad. while bush enjoys his day after his 'well-made' speech, a few more americans die because of it. all americans are hated due to the admin policy. can't u see the govt made u look bad to the rest of the world? & u say it's ok 'cos we got some baddies as well?

like faile said, eye for an eye makes the world blind. revenge can never be the answer.

sigh... somehow where humanity excel in technological advancement, it fails in moral development.

talk of japan being a financial powerhouse, as how mslynx said, it's also tied to US apron strings. iraq may have the same fate.

Nope I expected to answer to that but not with an atomic bomb! It was a great victory indeed to see children without hands or burned by radiation! I cryed for the young Americans who died in Pearl Harbor. But the damage the Americans made with that bomb had effect in the whole humanity.

Yeah, I know it made the US look bad to some people, but that's because I think people are looking at the wrong things. People are missing the important thing. Sure we got some bad guys, but the most important thing as Iraq has freed from the grasp of an evil tyrant and millions of lives have been saved.

I'll tell you what I don't see, though. What I don't see is why people can't see that and be happy for the Iraqis who are on the beginning of a road to freedom instead of looking for ways to hate the US and/or just criticise us. No one said things would magically get better for Iraq overnight, and anyone who thinks that is just being plain ridiculous as are the people who are complaining about things not being being hunky dory right now.

The situation in Iraq may not be an ideal situation right now, but it sure beats what they had with Saddam in power.

If people are going to hate the US for ousting Saddam, fine. I'll gladly trade a bit of tarnish on our reputation to save lives and bring freedom. I'd love to hear some other solutions to getting Saddam out of power. *Viable* solutions I mean.

Freedom has never come free, and probably never will. Freedom has always been purchased in blood by people willing to fight for it because the people who are doing the oppressing simply won't stop oppressing unless they are forced to do so, like Saddam or Hitler or even King George the III.

Because of this, I salute the brave men and women who have fought for freedom all over the world throughout the ages.



That would be a valid statement and all if Bush invaded Iraq for revenge, but since he didn't it bears no relevence.

Iraq was invaded to remove a threat by the name of Saddam Hussein. For those that might be inclined to ask, "How was Saddam a threat?" might I remind you about the wars he started and the millions of people that have been tortured, raped and killed by his command?

Saddam was/is a violent, evil human being, and violence is the only language people like him understand. He would not have given up power without a struggle, and while he was still in power he would not stop being the evil dictator he was. The only way to get him to stop being a threat was through violence because he wasn't about to listen to anything else any more than hitler or Stalin would have changed their ways if they were asked nicely to stop being murderous creatures.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some bloodthirsty warmongerer, but sometimes violence *is* the answer.

For example, in grade school if a bully is picking on you (either verbally, physically or both) and he won't stop no matter what you do, sometimes you just have to sock him back to get him to stop.



Evil will always exist in this world. World peace will never happen because there will always be some prick to try and screw things up. The best we can hope for is to try and make things as peaceful as possible, and sometimes it takes a little violence now to prevent a lot of violence later.



I'm pretty sure Japan could survive without us. But then again maybe not. Where else would they import their crappily made cartoons and movies to?

Yeah, it effectivly told the rest of humanity to not mess with the US.

I am not terribly fond of the fact we dropped the bombs on civilians anymore than you are. I think in war your only targets should be military installations, but this was back in 1941 and there weren't a whole lot of rules for war like we have today. War basically meant you tried to screw the opponent over in anyway possible to get them to wave the white flag.

Since then, we've gone through several different administrations as well as a few generations and nowadays, the US doesn't target civilians, we target military installations and the like.

To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not seeing your connection between the US retaliating against Japan in the early 40's and the US ousting Saddam and his regime today.

Big whoop. There's conspiracy theories for just about anything any governemtn does.

Heck, there's even conspiracy theories that the US government has actual frozen aliens and the spacecraft they came in on.

Even if FDR had known about the attack before it was carried out, it still doesn't change the fact that Japan attacked us and dragged us into a war we'd been staying out of.



As I said before, it makes them "mistaken" not "lying."

No it doesn't. If you give a reason for taking an action, and state the reason as fact in stead of a possibility, then you're lying.

Sceptisism,Sceptisism and more Sceptisism,as the French say "That's life" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
To everyone here,too much Politics breeds hatred, lets get back to what this site is about leisure and good gaming...'nuff said' <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

yep, i agree. it's gone to a point where no words will change the minds on either side of the 'truth'. as the cow would say, moot.

This one makes you think though... http://costofwar.com/

If you read carefully, you would notice that I wrote: And if disagreeing with Bush and the current US goverment means hating the USA and US citizens: Yes, I do hate the USA and US citizens.

That doesn't mean I hate US citizens. I just wanted to make clear that not agreeing witb GWB and criticizing his imperialistic politics DO NOT mean hating all Americans. That would be ridiculous. In fact, as ridiculous as always bringing up this hate issue in these discussions. Whenever I try to discuss with US people and then criticize Bush, there is at least one bright person telling me how they are sick of being hated. I am not anti-american! WE are not anti-american. Bush is.

And just a few words to those few blinded ones who still think that the war was only because of the horrible WMDs in Iraq:

"The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction, as the core reason."
(Paul Wolfowitz, US Deputy Defense Secretary - source: CNN.com and many others as well)

Other than that, try checking The Project for the New American Ce...ilding America's Defences" doctrine - you might probably find information at the end which shows you that there are more reasons for a war in Iraq than WMDs and terrorism. In fact, much more important reasons.