Larian Studios Forums General Chat Saddam is caught

that's why we love you so much kiya!!!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, oBosch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

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God says "You are with me or Against me"

that's what I meant by saing we become like them
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]

I am not a biblical person or a fully christian..

But i believe in good and bad and i am not a bad person, even if i dont believe in god..
I am not against gods intensions with people even if i dont believe in him....
If you understand me?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I believe in myself, in the goodness in me, and in the goodness in other poeple. I don't believe there is a "god" that is all good, if there would be, there wouldn't be this discussion.

If everyone blindly agrees with what their elders tell them, then there will always be fighting. We all got a brain, not only to memorize what is been told us, but to process it.

Religeon has caused the most harm in the world ever, most wars in history have had a relgious cause. Everyone things his believes ar right and the others are wrong, it gets passed on trough generations. Don't hate because of they told you to hate. Saddam and Bush (and many others) use this hate to get their goals. If ppl hate iraq because they might have been involved in 11/9 be sure it won't stop.

Same goes for partiotism, if you blindly do what your country tells you to, your just a pion in the chessgame of the world, you are just another tool govermenst use. Believing in things without questioning it is wrong.
I've said this somwhere on this board, or the old one before "Partiotism is naïvism" same goes for Relegion.

Only your sane mind will cure the world. The world has a long road ahead to peace, and only clearing your mind from all prejudgements and processing everything as you would be there will cure. Offcourse no-one is perfect or ever will be, but we can try to get so close as possible.

note: I'm to tired to spell right or to structure my post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> I'm off to sleep nn.

In a nutshell that was what I was trying to say. If everyone in the world just said NO to terrorism/hatred in whatever form, it would not exist. I belive everyone here says NO! That is a great thing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

i agree completely, elgi. actually i have agreed, i think, with everything you've said.

i've had to take a break from the discussions because of a strong desire to be somewhat..... uncivil. i'm glad others are taking up where i left off.

Just saw on the news that Kadofi (sp?) is going to let inspectors into Libia and is going to disban and disarm all weapons and weapons programs. Could this have not just been a result of on going peace talks with Libia, but also in part due to the capture of Saddam? Has anyone heard more?

it's muammar gadaffi, goldy.

& most of u, it seems, have a very hands-off approach to religion though u may tend to sound neutral & civil.

what obosch brought up about bible stating God saying that either u're with him or against him was taken out of context. bible can only be understood when read wholly & with open mind. not to forget God-given foresight, but then that's my opinion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

islam is a religion very much misunderstood by many & it's actually a religion that loves peace. but it does state that fighting for a just cause is valid. now please don't take this out of context as there are more to that than just a sentence.

christianity abhors war in all form but it does talk of christians waging war against their enemies. again, to avoid that from being taken out of context, it talks of sin as enemy, not the person or people who have sin.

if only all statesmen from all countries join this forum & discussed things with us, i'm sure they'll have better alternatives to help the whole world. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

won't it be nice if we're no longer separated by race, creed, borders, politics, lies, etc. no longer called as german, malaysians, americans, chinese, etc .... just humanity! all united in love.

but i'm just dreaming.

This calls for a new thread! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

dreaming helps, if everyone dreamt this ...

I think this was originally the idea of all beliefs, philosophies, religions, Janggut = being united in peace, respect and understanding. And my belief further: if all these religions/beliefs/philosophies etc would be combined, the fragments for a peaceful life would be larger. The basis for human kind could grow. But as long as one of these beliefs (and sadly all of them claim this for themselves) propagates its superiority = fight. Same goes for all political systems (even democracy).

Well, it's not really the belief itself, but the people believing/acting/abusing these beliefs to gain power/influence and superiority over others who cause this blindness. Same goes for those who blindly believe, only they know the truth and have to "convince" others about this - sadly, not always in debates but sometimes with weapons.

So, sometimes I think: are we even capable of peace or is it human nature to fight/oppress etc.? Or maybe it is our nature to define/seperate/find definitions because we are scared of unity? Because we feel we could lose ourselves and lose our individuality, lose ourselves? And this seperation in words/beliefs/nationalities etc leads to the thought: I am superior, I have to bring all to my path? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, have my philosophical day probably <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

LOL! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> kiya, we love u because u're u! so keep that philosophical self!

belief systems, especially the organised ones which we know as religions are there mostly to define humanity & its purpose/direction. which is among the reasons why the level of belief in the believers are very strong.

christianity(sorry i can't speak for other religions due to my lack of knowledge in them) has belief that humanity is created with purpose & direction. so i guess u know by now how certain christians can be very passionate & can go overboard. religious nuts, as how americans call them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

kiya's right on the money; it's the people who misinterpret/abuse religions that make religions look evil & dangerous. religions can never be more dangerous than a 4-wheel vehicle.

talk of humanity, christianity do believe that humanity can never be complete without spiritual union with its creator. so to put it in layman's term, & please be aware that i may be wrong, if u're human & still fall short of your potential, purpose & direction, it means u lack the main component that makes u a perfect human: God.

ok, shoot me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" />

Nope, won't shoot - but think about this, Janggut: What if we wouldn't need to define? I'll try to explain what I mean:

if we would take our environment, ourselves as we are - without having to use "words" or "definitions" to create little boxes where we put our definitions in and then judge everything around us by using these little definition boxes. Why? Because EVERY definition excludes something.

Example: I define something as "white" - this excludes "black", correct? Why can't black just be a different (not darker) shade of white? Why do I have to use black/white in the first case? And if you've got a very tolerant large box, from what colour shade on will grey exist? Does it fit into the box or not?

Back to beliefs: Why do we need beliefs/philosophies/religions in the first case? Why do people need this to define themselves and define then what "good/bad" is in the first case? Isn't it just the fear of a little child trying to understand the whole large world via definition? Via virtues? Via whatever? And WHY do we, when we have overcome our child age, still stick to this (and many even do this without questioning)? Why can't we use our brains and then find out our own paths? Why do they have to be labeled with Christianity/Islam/Hindu/Democracy etc?

I think speech is a helper and a great seperator as well. Maybe you know this little fable:

3 blind men are lead to an elephant. Everyone of them is put at a different part of this animal. They are allowed to touch/feel and then describe it.
Result: 3 definitions, 3 different opinions, quarrel. Every blind man was convinced he knew the elephant by just feeling one part of it (fragment) - now: what would have happened if they would've just combined all 3 definitions? Yep, they would have had a more complete of this animal - and? Well, these 3 men were still not enough, maybe 10 blind could have gathered more information to describe the animal - maybe 100? And no one of these blind men could have still described the colour of this animal.
Kiya

Shoot me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - remember my dodge skill.... hehe... this elephant could be a metaphor for the world/beliefs/the human kind/philosophies/political systems <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> - and this elephant could be a metaphor for a single human being as well (you, me everyone...) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" /> <kiya tapping her decoder, looking at her spaceship entrance hatch>

hahaha!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> somehow we do see things quite similarly!

i did mention about 'definition' in a thread called chaos theory, or something like that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> darkness is may not be the opposite of light, rather the lack of light.

what makes a knife really a knife? just the looks? or could it be the sharp edge? most importantly but not exclusively it's the purpose of the knife that makes it a knife. so i do agree with christianity in a purpose & direction for human existence. humankind cannot do this. just like a knife cannot decide that it is a knife or otherwise. it's defined by its creator: human. so purpose & direction for humankind is a decision best made by its creator.

""words" or "definitions" to create little boxes where we put our definitions in and then judge everything around us by using these little definition boxes."
-> u're right, kiya. our limited vocabulary despite all achievements still cannot put everything into words. also limited is our method of thought(logic for example is one) that limits our understanding of our environments.

"And WHY do we, when we have overcome our child age, still stick to this (and many even do this without questioning)? Why can't we use our brains and then find out our own paths?"
-> there is a reason for this; to avoid the same pitfalls that befell those before us. & i think it's called wisdom. the part regarding 'without questioning' is very sad indeed. hence some dare to fall into the same pitfall to learn it better.

"Why do they have to be labeled with Christianity/Islam/Hindu/Democracy etc?"
-> to be honest with u, kiya, as well as rendering respect; u sound like an outsider who doesn't have an inkling about the essence of religion & its contribution towards humankind & community is but one of many contributions. how should i put this? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> here's an american idiom: don't knock it till u've tried it.

democracy is a political system as u know very well. so's communism. they're mostly ideas that turn into reality though their original definitions are lost in interpretation. their existence is proof that humankind does indeed try to forge new paths especially for community living. but the spirit of pioneers now seems limited to profit-oriented technology only.

i will never think of shooting u, kiya. i might as well face josie again & again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Correct, no inkling, I'm an outsider - no interest to fit into a community that excludes - and this is done by every religion/philosophy/belief. I go my own paths - they are correct for me. I need no herd to feel comfortable in. I watch, I observe with distance (having my spaceship ready for take off then <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> )

Why? I saw too much in my life, Janggut. I saw buddhist monks hitting Hindus, I saw Moslems throwing stones, I saw Christians behaving the same way. I heard a priest wanting to force me to accept Apartheid as something that was God's will - and many more things. Correct, no inkling. I have been knocked too much by beliefs/philosophies/political systems to believe even in one of it.

But I respect people who believe - IF they don't need to convice others to think the same way. And if they do? I then conclude this: they are INSECURE and need outer support in form of "fans" to cover their own insecurity.



I disagree here - I call it cowardice, I call it trotting old paths without looking at the green grass next to it. I call it lazyness of the brain - IF people don't question themselves why they believe what they believe. If they find reasons to still believe, then I respect, I just don't like it if people don't question themselves over and over again. If people choose security out of fear (being an outsider, being alone etc) then they will always remain in their own prison. And this causes harm to all.

You see, what might be a pitfall for you, might be a safe cave for someone else, a chance to learn more - a test etc. And the Iraq crisis is an interesting subject for me to study human behaviour, here on the forum, in the newspapers, internet etc.
Kiya

BTW, I have met people with a deep sincere belief, I felt it - and I have great respect for them. But this is not my path and these people understood me.

Due to lack of time, just one smartass comment on that: Kiya, what you are saying is your own philosophy, don't forget <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Correct, Elgi - thought I had made that clear? If not, thanks for clarifying. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> - those who know me here since some time could have had the hunch that my view is strictly subjective - I don't believe in objective (doesn't exist in my subjective view <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> ) - even in my philosophy is an exclusion - sadly, I'm human <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />
No update, no patch, bugged forever like all humans <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

I guess, I was not clear enough. The emphasis was on "philosophy" and not on "your own". I didn't want to criticize that you talk about your subjective views. I was just a bit irritated about your words about religion and philosophy and such, while you were telling us your philosophy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I believe that philosophy doesn't mean that some old man comes along and tries to explain the world and everything. It can also rather be the "little man's" view of things (or the little woman's of course). What we think about anything... and everybody thinks about many things. If you consider what or who is God and come to a conclusion of whatever nature, that is your philosophy, your belief. It can be a ridiculous belief, sure, you might believe that God is a giant pair of shoes based on some shoe-seller propaganda. But it would be your belief.

Thus, I don't think it is appropriate to say that there is no need for philosophy and/or belief for humans. It is in fact a belief itself to say such a thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

"If you meet Buddha, kill him" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - a sentence I like very much, specially when it deals with philosophy - not to actually kill a person, but never keep crouching at the feet of a teacher/religious leader/political leader for too long and give up individuality.

Just listen to what he has to say - and then move on = just taking what was said with yourself/myself and asking myself again, is it appropriate for me or not? We have too many sheep that's why we have leaders, too. I'm anarchist, remember?

and this is strictly subjective, too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - just my path I'm going, I'm not asking anyone to join it. Because what may be constructive for me may not be for someone else. And this is not my belief, just my XP (subjective XP again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> )
Kiya

I wasn't saying there is no need - I wanted to point out that philosophy/religion/belief excludes - and if someone chooses to take it up, she/he should be aware of this exclusion - don't turn my words around, Elgi. We've had that in German threads already and I don't like that.

I am sorry if I turned your words around... or just misinterpreted them as a rather general remark. I have to admit I believe that nobody talks about their personal views without the intention of somehow propagating it but that is by no means a general accusation or something like that. I just have the impression that you don't want to tell just your views but also try to convince others of them. But oh well... of course, I can be wrong in that point.

But I think I have to mention one thing: The statement by me which you have quoted doesn't say that YOU said that, it is a general remark. So, it isn't actually twisting your words. My post could rather be regarded as a semantic comment on philosophy/belief based on your views on it - general in nature, but also referring to your personal and subjective opinion if you want so.