hey kiya, thanks for the reply which u shared with us your views & experiences. i'm sure it helps me a lot in learning how different people having very different XP, mindsets, styles & methods.

& elgi, thanks for your reply as well which u're being very civil. it is very nice to have intelligent discussions with intelligent people.

"Correct, no inkling, I'm an outsider - no interest to fit into a community that excludes - and this is done by every religion/philosophy/belief. I go my own paths - they are correct for me. I need no herd to feel comfortable in. I watch, I observe with distance (having my spaceship ready for take off then )

Why? I saw too much in my life, Janggut. I saw buddhist monks hitting Hindus, I saw Moslems throwing stones, I saw Christians behaving the same way. I heard a priest wanting to force me to accept Apartheid as something that was God's will - and many more things. Correct, no inkling. I have been knocked too much by beliefs/philosophies/political systems to believe even in one of it.

But I respect people who believe - IF they don't need to convice others to think the same way. And if they do? I then conclude this: they are INSECURE and need outer support in form of "fans" to cover their own insecurity." kiya

again i can only tell u of what i know & think as a christian(who happens to be the lowliest of all christians), that christian community, at least in its idealistic form is never one to put pressure on any to adopt the beliefs. it is sad however that history has proved otherwise. such as the case of the crusades. but blame not the belief but the leaders who exploited it to their own ends. i myself have seen my own churchmember chased out somebody who's not from our denomination from the church area. i cried seeing this happened. u see, i believe in unity of humankind, be it religiously, or politically, or love. it is my number one crazy dream which i know can never happen in my lifetime. nevertheless i still put my hopes in it for i want the future generation to have better future without hate & fear.

i'm sorry about that crazy priest believing in apartheid. & proud of u that u rejected his view. christianity never preach racism.

convincing others about their beliefs, it's no more diferent than advertising & promoting as well as sharing with others something u think is important such as virtues of recycling & reducing pollution. minus their crazed fervour, they're just people similar to salesperson, environmentalists, etc.

"I disagree here - I call it cowardice, I call it trotting old paths without looking at the green grass next to it. I call it lazyness of the brain - IF people don't question themselves why they believe what they believe. If they find reasons to still believe, then I respect, I just don't like it if people don't question themselves over and over again. If people choose security out of fear (being an outsider, being alone etc) then they will always remain in their own prison. And this causes harm to all.

You see, what might be a pitfall for you, might be a safe cave for someone else, a chance to learn more - a test etc. And the Iraq crisis is an interesting subject for me to study human behaviour, here on the forum, in the newspapers, internet etc." kiya

this is something we should take with grains of salt. now when parents say not to go out alone, children should pay heed to this even if they think it's ridiculous as they can take care of themselves. the choice of trotting old paths versus venturing is ultimately up to everyone of us. i won't deem it as cowardice, unless it's peer pressure that decides for u or some other external factor that made the unwanted choice.

choices we made merely relfect our preferences. how we walk in the paths will show what each person is made of. i may take the well used path with agenda different from others. or i may take a new path just to convince myself that i'm unique or that i sucked badly in the old path. just like cars that travel down the same road, how each is driven depends mostly on the thinker, who happens to be the driver.

if i misconstrue your words, please correct me, ok?

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