Larian Studios Forums General Chat The Adorant

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Wow, this post has grown since I last visited. Where do I begin? Hmmmm, "I was born in the slums of...," Nope, too cliched. Okay, how's this: "Call me Ishmael. ...," Nope, already been done. Ahhhhh! I've got it..., 'The end'. Yes, yes, yes, I'll begin at 'the end'. Makes sense to me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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There are those of us *cough* who have 'signatures' turned off in our profiles. Hence, we lose that delicious opportunity to surf where others have dared. Luc may be one of those members (like myself) who has turned that feature off. Thank you, WF for your gracious response.

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There that takes care of 'the end'.

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For those of us who have read Alrik's "The Adorant" I think it's safe to say we all come away with something different. In my very humble opinion everyone who offered a critique made valid points. However, let's be realistic. Not everyone who posts their work is willing to change it. I.e., there are some people who enjoy writing for writing's sake. There are others who want to learn the craft including all of its nuances, right down to "Participles: Why do mine always hang?" The ability to distinguish between those two kinds of writers is important in this context. It's clear to me that Alrik's translation is something he doesn't want to tweak with. Thereore, I believe in respecting his wish. But that's not to say (and I can't repeat this enough), that the criticism that was offered was sound and valid points were made.


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Was that too strong or not strong enough? *scratches head* Is *my* ego busting to get through? Do I have an ego? Where'd you go, ego? *checks down blouse* (I lost it!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Ooooh! But I do have a ton of alter egos. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


*is happy again* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

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The whole tone of this post has turned into the 'you're wrong/I'm right' version of "To Tell the Truth" (an old, popular TV gameshow in the US). And frankly, when discussing art of any kind there is no right or wrong. It's like nature. It simply exists. (And if you can follow that line of thinking, I'll give you a cookie). Either you like The Adorant or you don't. Either it spoke to you, or it didn't. Some call it art, others don't. And everyone's opinion is valid because it is an 'opinion' and nothing more.

I think some of Alrik's voice as a writer was lost in the translation which is something I took into consideration as I read it. So, that is another view yet unexplored. *g*

So there. You've got yet another unsolicited opinion.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

I'll concede that I forgot about the option to turn off signatures. Eh, Lucretia didn't reply that she has got it turned off, either.



Wait. You're saying the criticism offered was unsound and invalid points were made?



That was mentioned a page ago or so, if you want to know...

What makes you think I haven't read it, WF? How can anyone not read it after the link has been referred to time and again? It screams, "Read me." Ergo, I obliged. Truly, enlightening. I was moved beyond words. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Guys & gals...

Whilst unstinting praise is worthless to a writer, so is unrelenting criticism. Neither is constructive or useful to the writer in improving his or her craft.

Nothing ever written is so perfect it cannot be torn down. Even Rhianna's father hasn't turned out perfect stories all the time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just a thought <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Exactly, Elliot and criticism does not necessarily have to end at the feet of the critics. Toni Morrison has some of her own published works in her library that have been edited by her own hand. Most authors can't let their babies stand on their own two feet. It's so tempting to go back and rewrite, tweak, detract and add. It's our busy Monday morning quarterback barking 'could'ves' and 'should'ves' that seems to awaken the itch of insecurity. A characteristic which dwells in each of us. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

That is SO true, Faralas! If I allowed myself to go back and edit old stuff, I would never write anything new! I don't think I've ever been wholly satisfied with anything I've ever written, and I am sure every writer must feel the same way.

At the end of the day, a writer is only as good as his/her next story - if we think last story the editing never ends <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, ... simply can't resist: Are your egos celebratng a party? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> I think, a lot of alter egos make a story really interesting, so you don't fall into the danger of repeating yourself in writing, hm? Can you spare a few for me, Faralas? I'm sure, I'd have lots of fun with them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

Im confused about why goddess is in temple. Who was she meditating to?

Well, since we're fallen angels, we'd do well to stick together. There's misery in numbers... or is that strength? Can't remember.

Sure, m'dear, take a few of my alter egos. Any one in particular that interests you? I am particularly fond of the narcoleptic shapeshifter. He's always fun at weekend get-aways. Then there is the ever-popular invisible flying albatross. Wait! She's on loan already. Sorry. But, I have a wonderful, seldom used inflate-a-psycho with moveable parts. Interested?


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Btw, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

LOL! I love the sound of the narcoleptic shapeshifter <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I thought the temple would be the or at least one home of the Goddess of the coast.

Meditating Gods ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> Hm, interesting idea.

Although some readers wouldn't like that ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> : "Gods need not to meditate anymore ! They are already enlightened !" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Ah, by the way, have you seen : The precessor, "The Goddess" is online ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> Must be even more disturbing ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

By the way, yes, I fear that many things were lost in the translation process. And, yess, I used the element of repeating as a way to stress things. Looks clumsy, but it's (like) the way I wanted it.

I don't really like translating that much, and receiving such bad reviews on a text I've translated leads me to the decision that I shouldn't put translated texts of mine online anymore - or even no more translate texts at all.

What might sind incredibly stupid and clumsy in your ears (ears of "natural born English speakers")might just be so because it is disttorted through the process of translating - a thing I haven't seriously considered yet. ( I well remember Winterfox being irritated by my use of the expression "to formulate" in a sentence, wich a very common expression in German to say that you've built a sentence ... often in a certain way ... )
On the other hand the same might happen to you if you want to translate your texts into German - which I won't see, here, I think. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
I think it would be nothing but fair if you'd try to translate your texts into German (hint to Winterfox), and then see how the people react towards it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I'm content with my level of the English language; where others are not (again hint to Winterfox). I think my English is good - at least good enough for me, and I think the English of many others here (includuing Winterfox) must be superior to mine. I think I shall be more low-minded about that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Alrik,

If I had any part in your decision not to post translations of your writing, please ignore my comments. They stem from ignorance. I am fluent in only one language and that is my own. I am impressed with people who speak and write more than one and you fall into that category. Conversational English is quite different from our written words. Much of what and how we speak is not the way we (Americans) write. I don't know if that's true for other languages because I am fluent in only English. I know a little bit of Spanish and Dutch. And after a few drinks I can speak "Sputch". So, that's the extent of my language abilities.

But seriously, don't stop translating because of what people have said here. This is not a writing site. It's a forum for gamers. Don't take too seriously the criticism you received here. Most of it was not tempered with positive feedback which I think is important when giving constructive criticism. So there is another 2 farthings thrown into the swill.

Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Alrik said:



<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I won't even deign to reply to this. How silly can it get?

Faralas said:



*blinks* I think I linked to Limyaael's journal only once (outside of my signature), so...

Unless you're being sarcastic -- Lim's great, though, isn't she? She may call her entries "rants", but they're so amazingly insightful. Praise her with great praise!



I'd normally point out anything positive that I see when I type critiques, but I wouldn't stoop to lying. So in that case, I try to keep my criticism free of snark, sarcasm and personal attacks. *shrugs*

Really? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Oh wait I am blind! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> Where are my glasses?
*Luc is searching in her huge bag*
Oh here are my gums!

@ Faralas
I fell of the chair laughing with your alter egos <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> Liked your humor very much. And I could not agree more about what you posted about art.

See ? You've missed my point.

My point was that a translation process can distort things in one way or another - take idioms for example, which are really difficult to translate.

This is what I meant, basically : If I knew one of the languages you know, and I could read the same text you wrote in *BOTH* languages (the one you originally wrote it in and the second language you translated the same text int), I could see and perceive the same effect of what I called "distortion" that happened when I was translating my own text from the language it was originally written in (German) into the second language (English). Maybe you know your first and second language(s) (and third or forth, don't remember) better than I know my first and second language so that the effect would be smaller, but it would still be there, nevertheless.
Since every language is alo expression of a culture, there *will* be one process of wht I called "distortion", simply because neither culture is the same than another one.

Alrik.

Do you have any idea at all what your "hinting" to me to translate my writing into German and put it up on public view sounded like?

For the umpteenth time, I know jack squat German, so I'm not going to even try. Thai? Now, yes. And I'd be writing a separate version, too, if I feel like having my writing in more than one language -- as I've already said. For that matter, haven't I already acknowledged the difficulty in translation some posts ago? Read carefully.

If, as you state, you are aware of the difficulty in translation, why did you leave a critique that treated the story -- err, let me rephrase that -- the writer, as though English was his native language?

And, WF, you might want to take your own advice about 'reading carefully'. Nowhere in Alrik's message did I see him hint or even ask you to translate one of your pieces into German or any other language for that matter. He was making a point about translation in general.

It must be wonderful in your world, WF. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Mmmmm.



Yup. Must be wonderful in your world, too, Faralas. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

This is absolutely true, and a good point for every writer to bear in mind, I think.

Anyone who has ever tried writing a character from another (Real world) culture will know it is hard enough to get into the mindset of a 'foreign' character.

Translation must be ten times worse.

Ahhh, excuse me, WF but the above was not cut and pasted from the message I was referring to. But beside the point, you [conveniently] didn't answer my first question. And since you have trouble navigating this board I'll cut and paste it again, right here:



So? What say you? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Btw, my world *is* fantastic. Thanks for asking. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />