Larian Studios Forums General Chat The Adorant

dagnabbit! *fist punches palm*

ok, so be it. just don't mess with my hair & careful not to put any crease on my pants. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

There is no need to shoot you Janggut. Some of the things you wrote, are right. I mean we always have to keep in mind that there are in here people with different personalities and origins and we sure have a lot of differences. But I find it at least insulting what you have said about Al. Who said that I (I don´t know about the others but I am sure that Kiya does not do the same although I can not speak for her), comfort Al? Al is not my child. He is a man and I respect him. And he never ever asked my sympathy. It is something that he gained for what he is. Now Al does not need "a mother" and I am sure that you did not mean it in this way. But they way you wrote it gives me that impression. I am not here to comfort him and I am sure that if I did he would not like it.

As for Winterfox I have expressed my opinion to her via pm. And I think that this is something that concerns her. You have to realize though that it is my perogative (thnx Faralas I always like to learn new words since my vocabulary is limited), not to like some people´s ways. And this is not because of Al. Anybody who would be in his place I would feel the same way. Because that is me.

You can find a million excuses for Winterfox (and I am sorry I do not like to talk about a person as if she is not present. In my country we think that this is not polite), including your Asian origins. But those excuses are not good enough for me. I sure like the truth Janggut and I prefer to talk with a person who tells the truth than with a liar. But there is always a choice for a better way to do it. Truth is not altered if you try to express it in a more polite, civilized and gentle way. It remains the truth. No matter what. And if Winterfox still wanted to express her opinion for Al´s work the way she did, she could at least be sensitive enough and send him her opinion via pm. You see? I don´t ask and don´t expect Winterfox to change. It is her choice (although I know for sure that one day she will regret it, but this is just what I think). Respect is what I ask. Respect for all the people in here. She could buthcer Al´s work (I am sorry again but this is how I see it) via pm. I am personally very annoyed to see words and sentences which include a whole world -from the writers perspective- be ripped apart just because Winterfox thinks that she is a good writer. Oh yes I have read her work. And I may respect that she and you and everyone in this forum become from a different culture but that does not mean that I have to like it does it? The way you ask us to accept our differences, it should be the same way that you should ask Winterfox to accept everybody´s feellings. You did not. Your choice. Don´t ask me to make it mine. And if everyone here were like Winterfox, I would not be in this forum. Sorry. This is how I feel.

Always prefer to bring my X-Wing to a gunfight <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I'll go get my lightsaber, or something. Last time I tried to use it, I nearly chopped off my own leg, though. *runs after Janggut* Cremation or burial?

*laughs, goes away to count how many jurisimprudence laws have been broken in the span of a single post*

Bah, the only thing I could "analyze", Winterfox, is the way how people decide to show themselves, that's a huge difference: the mask, the role, preferences how to communicate in this virtual world. It needs more to evaluate a person - far more than written words. Everything going deeper needs RL contact, needs observing if body language, mimic and constistency are congruent with the word. Posts are just flashes, nothing else. And what I can see, is only if an approach is consistent in posting, regardless of topic - if it is repetitive, forms a pattern - so? I can name this pattern, call it a cloak.

@Janggut => I agree with wholeheartedly with Luc, and in particular with these words:


I try to accept differences in the way people here decide to show themselves - IF they show caring and respect => my preferences. Why? Because I think, the virtual world allows the time to think before I write - which is more difficult in RL, where words flow too easily, too quickly out of the mouth. I have seen approaches here I disliked highly, should I simply ignore them? Nope, I won't. If a person decides to trample like an elephant through the underwood, I wish to utter this as freely as the elephant himself. Why? Well, because this is me: accept my difference - your choice - you can decide not to: your choice again. The same as I make my choices or not.
Kiya

@Luc:


You spoke for me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> Thank you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />

@janggut again:

They can? Do they need to? No choice? So, hiding behind the coat of nationality and culture is sufficient then as justification? No self-reflection? No individuality? Just nationality and culture?

If this is the case => then I DON'T accept this case => my choice is this: I see the individual - never accepted nationality as a cloak, is a very old choice, since childhood on.

For the last time, let me make this clear: I do not need excuses.

*waves a hand vaguely* I hereby declare that I'm out and far away from the, uh, debate/discussion. It's gotten so...

Oh, what the hell. I'll go off and self-mock.

I'm with WinterFox here; she's a tough critic, but even when she bites, she does it with arguments and respect. Maybe she's not the easiest person in the world, but at least you know where she stands (if that's an expression), and I respect that.

imho that's an expression since you expressed it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

It is nice to know where other people stand. And yes true Winterfox has strong arguments. This is the only reason I even bothered to answer her pm, because for that I respect her. But she does not do it with respect as you said Kejero and I think this is the case that brought this interesting -from mypoint of view- conversation in this thread. You don´t "bite" with respect. You just do it. That is what I don´t like. Let me "bite" you for once Kejero (Oh yes I can be easily very mean if I want to) and then you can tell me if you liked it and if I did it with respect and if you like to know "where I stand". And I never implyed that Winterfox is not the easiest person in the world. I don´t know her in RL. Not even in virtual. I judge her posts and her way of expressing things.

Just making clear my point. Nothing against you Kejero ok?

i'm sorry if i didn't make myself clear enough. of course nobody will accept my excuse of english being my 4th language? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Luc, i'm not being insulting to Alrik. Al, if i sound insulting please please please let me know or i might continue without knowing it. ok?

what i meant was for Alrik to toughen up, not to expect friends to defend him (of course he doesn't but i thought he needs to know about it) all the time when he should be the one who's doing it.

now before i blow my head off by going off-topic, i wish the best for Alrik. dude, i was being a bit harsh in my last post because i thought it might 'wake' u up a bit so u can see better how things are. i have an aunt who's like my best friend & she's always a bit harsh at times when she sees that i'm screwing my life up. not that i mean u are doing that.

see why they always say good intentions always lead to hell? Al, i thought by giving u a bit of a 'push', u might be more conscious. guess i did that wrongly.

kiya, didn't mean to be condescending to Al, i was trying to be helpful, in ways that i know.

& that i'm not providing winterfox any excuse either. i was only letting u know about the difference in culture which sometimes can be quite a rude revelation when finding out. such as what happened earlier.

Al, where are u?

to Luc, kiya, Alrik, winterfox; no hard feelings, ok? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> if u're unsure of what i said, please let me know.

edit: regarding the part where i should've addressed winterfox on how she should accept the rest rather than the rest accepting her, well, please chop my head off for not doing so. i thought she was misunderstood so i stood up & said something about it. i can see from her posts that she understood your points, which is why i didn't address winterfox on acceptance.

Yeah but she doesn't bite just to bite. She pointed out the flaws she saw so that the author can consider them and decide whether the critics were useful or not. Agreed, she went a little far in trying to make her opinion come across, but her opponents in the discussion kind of forced her to. You could argue that she didn't have to take the bait, but that goes for the other side too.

I understand that you and other people would appreciate a more subtle approach from her side, but she prefers to give her opinion as a critic, and I think it should be read as such. Besides, as a critic, I believe she does a better job than many published critics.



I know Luc <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> I guess on this matter you and I and everybody else has a different kind of skin, so I don't think there's much point in trying to make points here. Anyway, I feel this topic has a bit too much judgeing about a person in it, so I'm gonna stop here. I just wanted to express my opinion on the subject (being rather about WinterFox now than Alrik's work -- which is a real pity!) , and that's as far as I'll go.

As a sidenote, Luc, I respect you too for the points you're making here and the reasons behind them. Looking at this forum in black and white, I only see white; it's just not worth the fuzz <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (and don't dare to interpret this last sentence as rascist! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )

None at all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I don't hold grudges unless things go very, very far.

@ Kejero I thank you very much. Your words is honor to me. Trully. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
@ Janggut yeap the problem with the language is something that tortures me too (and all the people in the forum who read my posts if I may say so) so do not worry. I understand.

I think this is probably going off topic now. Alrik has got the feedback he was after, possibly more than he bargained for, so hopefully he will sit back and take things on board and see what he can do to improve his writing. Don't be despondent Alrik, life is a learning process and sometimes you've got to just roll with the punches. I guess everyone here now knows what they're in for if they should choose to expose their writing to this forum's critics. Perhaps we could start a new thread on the finer points of giving good criticism if there is a genuine desire for it, but I think prolonging this one (I fear) maybe depressing Alrik even more.

All I see is a lot of very nice people misunderstanding each other's intentions. Unfortunate, and I'd probably be suggesting a group hug if I wasn't the only guy so likely to get completely misunderstood myself <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

(And yes, I know Alrik and some of the others are guys - but truth should never get in the way of a good joke, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />)

This will be my last post in this discussion.

That strange post ... well, I had to "write something off my soul" , so to say. I don't know any better expression for that in English. I just wanted to show (in a way) what this discussion has caused within me.

I'm currently undergoing a process of deep self-analysis, for several weeks now.

I've come to a point where something broke me ... where someone tells me that "I
m a looser". I don't know where this comes from, but I still remember scenes from my childhood. Even scenes where my favourite character was Donald Duck, the "everlasting looser".
It might be that someone said this to me, or even I did it myself.

Remember the shattered glass lying in my bleeding wound ? That is what's left of my self-confidence.

However, no matter which direction I explore into my self, I come to this point : "I'm a looser". It doesn't matter anyway where it comes from, but it is there - and hinders my from developing a healthy self-confidence. Realizing how long it was there (childhood ?) I learn that I couldn't develop healthy self-confidence for a very long time now. That explains why I have so great difficulties in telling my weaknesses from my strengths; in fact, I don't seem to have any strengths at all, and all of the weaknesses seemingly mnuch bigger than they should be, I guess. That's why I react so strange, sometimes.

Even worse, my only point in my self where I could grow a healthy self-confidence so far was that writing. I had always thought I was good at it, my only strength, but it has crumbled to dust now, with this discussion. I have no strengths anymore. I have no (healthy) self-confidence anymore.

So where could I turn my self to ? Nowhere, because I'm a looser. There are no strengths, there are only weaknesses. And all because I'm a looser.

The glass is bleeding again in my wound, in my soul, and more fiercly than ever.

A friend of mine is a psychologist, and in the next months - I hope - I can talk with her about it, and get this thing resolved. Or rather dissolved.

I've never said I'm normal. I try to be so, but the looser prevents me from doing it. I have no healthy self-confidence.

Therefore I must rely on what people say. I cannot tell where my weaknesses (far too many) and strengths (any at all ?) are, so I must rely on what people say.

If people say that I'm a bad writer, then it's true. I have no means of confirming it, or falsify it. I must take it as it is.

So, if for example Winterfox dissects my story and point out all of the weaknesses, then my story is weak - and my only naturally grown self-confidence (as being a writer) crumbles to dust. I must believe her, since I cannot falsify or confirm her. And this goes for everyone else.

If I ever get critics, my view centers on the weaknesses, because I'm a looser. And since critics tend NOT to show any strengths a story has (because at least they are critics) , the looser in my is strengthened. I mean that the looser in my gets the signal : "You are a looser, and once again the people out there confirmed it. So let all of your hope be gone forever ! You cannot become better, no matter how much you try; you'll stay a bloody looser forever !"

That's how it goes, and I cannot do anything to prevent this. I cannot do anything against it.

Maybe that's the point why I react in the described way towards critics.

Now, I'm thinking that I'm a bad writer (if writer at all), and that I won't ever be able to improve my self, because I'm a looser. That's the result I take from this thread.

Oh, and another one : That friends might be there who don't care if you are a looser anyway. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


As an addition, this discussion has only sped up my decision to leave this board for a while. I would be gone anyway, because from the 21st this month on I'm going into a 3-months intermship at Potsdam, near Berlin without Internet connection anyway. Except Cafés, maybe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> So I would only be able to post during the weekends.

I would be gone anyway, but this discussion sped up my decision. I must clear my self, return to my self, and the time I will take for this.

Everyone, especially Winterfox, who believes that I'm a bad writer will no mote be bothered by my presence, then. I wil just retreat.

Consequently, I won't publish my "poems", because they are bad, too. I don't think anymore they are any good. Only if someone PMs me.

Is this a war won by my critics ? Yes and No.

Yes, because I'm retreating, No, because I've still got a place to hide : My own taste.
For my own taste, the Adorant is still one of my favourite stories I've ever written. Now, you might think, how BAD must he be if this one is his FAVOURITE story ? I leave this up to you, but in the end you are all superior to me, because I'm a looser (as explained above).
But in my own taste, nothing compares. I might still find highly acclaimed stories be the fill-in for the next litter-box, I might still think that some movies or RPGs are simply Mist (and I mean the German "Mist"). No-one can tell me something is bad or good, because he or she simply has not my own taste of things. That's my only place to hide that's left.

I'm closing this with some lines from an early song by Genesis :

"Am I very wrong ? to try to close my ears for the sound they play so loud ?
Am I very wrong ? The happiness machine is trying hard to sing my song !"

Alrik.

I think you're right EK, a group hug is in order!

Wow, Alrik! I had no idea you felt this way and since I've been in that space many years ago, I do understand what you're going through. Without the benefit of meeting you in real life, I think you're being a bit harsh on yourself. I've left you some very positive messages about your ability to read, write and speak in more than one language. That, IMHO, is a strength. And you have other strengths, too. Other people have left you very positive feedback. Why do you focus on the negative?

Alrik, you've got a lot going for you. I only wish you could see the wonderful person that I do. I saw several positive points to The Adorant, but I never sat down and gave you a critique. And, I've said this numerous times already, the feedback you received was not tempered with positive reinforcement.

Please keep in mind whatever feelings you have about your self-image and weaknesses are temporary. They will pass. Life is about growth. It's about change. If I were you, I'd put The Adorant away for a month or so. Come back to it at a later time and view it with fresh eyes. Post it in its original German translation at a writer's site (not a gaming site). I'm sure you'll receive more appropriate feedback than what you received here. You do have the ability to write. I think you have a gem of a storyline. It's just not ready for publication. And perhaps you never want it to be published -- and that's fine too!

I'm sorry to see you go and I'm hoping you will change your mind. I've tried to be as positive as I could with my messages to you. I guess they didn't make much of an impact and frankly, that saddens me. I feel as though I have failed you somehow. I apologize. It also bothers me that you've taken one person's words to heart. Happiness and self-esteem are things you cannot find outside of yourself. They dwell within you. It's a matter of finding them and in time, I'm more than positive you will.




Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

just for the record, i apologise for being codescending to Alrik, making false claim on Kiya & Lucretia, & for inducing counter-productive environment to the forum.

i hope Alrik, Kiya & Lucretia will forgive me.

Al, u're better than u think. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> will PM u.

janggut...

Please don't blame yourself for anything. You have done nothing wrong, and have nothing to apologise for <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />