Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General 7 Reasons why the DD demo was better....

[color:"orange"]The Top 7 uncensored reasons why I thought the Divine Divinity Demo was better than the Beyond Divinity Demo.[/color]

Before I begin, I would like to state that this is purely my opinion, totally subjective, and you may completely disagree with me. If so, please don't kill me... Also, I ONLY base myself on the demo, as I'm very, very confident in the full version.

*ahem* Ok, here I go...

1)[color:"orange"]The length of the demo.[/color]
This is obvious and has been mentioned alot of times. The DD demo was the EXACT right length for a demo. The point was, that in DD demo you REALLY got into the game, and if you finished it completely, you probably couldn't wait to get your hands on the full, so you can find out what else is going on.

The BD demo didn't give me this feeling. Yes, sure, it takes more time to finish then most other games, but when it comes to RPG demo's, you simply need a long demo that can keep you occupied long enough for you to not want to lose your character you spent so long developing. I can easily give up my BD character, because it was only at level 4, whereas in DD demo, you could get to level 10...

2)[color:"orange"] Lack of typical Divinity story-twists and sudden plot changes in story[/color]

The BD demo didn't have anything special when it comes to the story, apart from the fact that you are now linked to a deathknight. But you already knew that from all the previews and stuff, so really, nothing special happened, unlike in the DD demo where George was suddenly killed, or the elf in Aleroth got frozen... I missed stuff like that in this demo.

3)[color:"orange"]Setting and locations[/color]

I don't know how to explain this best, but in DD you started off in a friendly village, where you know you are safe. Even if you went off to a hostile terretory, you could always get back to safety in the village, where you had your own room and bed, and you could trade with the villagers if you needed anything.

In BD demo, you have non of those things. You start off in a hostile terretory, and there aren't really any people who can be concidered friends. All the friendly NPC's in BD demo are either crazy, dying, uninteresting (no background history) or all of the above.

Also I would like to point out that in the DD demo, manuscripts and books had better (longer, more interesting) texts in them. In the BD, it's just mostly comments. (e.g. "Hi, I'm paul and thi... [The rest of the text was covered in blood, so I couldn't read it]") How about instead of adding those comments in between [ ] brackets, you actually visually showed them?

4)[color:"orange"]Voiceacting[/color]

The voiceacting in the DD demo was simply better. There are only a few voice actors in the BD demo who I would call good, like the "squishy bits" guy. Then there are a few examples that sound very amateurish to be honest. In fact, I could swear that one line by a guard is read by a young boy...

5)[color:"orange"]Learning Curve, and interface[/color]

Ok, this was kindof expected. Now that you have more party members, you have a more complex interface, and thus it takes longer to get used to the whole thing. It took me less than 10 minutes to get completely used to DD, because the whole thing feels very natural. In BD however, I didn't quite get used to it, until I played the demo again for the second time, after having finished it. It's little things like not having a shared inventory, and not having the selected character auto-followed by the camera, that make the game unnecesarily more complicated.

I feel that there are alot of players who, if they don't understand the demo fast enough, simply cannot take the time to learn everything, and get rid of the demo immidiatly. These are the people who will never find out how awesome your game is, and that's a real shame.

6)[color:"orange"]Music...[/color]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but... *sigh* I didn't think the intro music was as good as in DD. The intro song for DD was absolutely gorgeous, and catchy. The BD intro song doesn't seem to fit in with the whole atmosphere of the game. Even the ingame song (only one ingame song in the demo) gave the game an unusual atmosphere. The graphics said: You are in a dimension of pain and suffering, while the music suggested a more relaxed atmosphere.

The thing about the intro music is that most of the time, the player will only hear the first 15 seconds of it, while he's loading his game, so the song has to be gripping from the beginning, like in DD.

7)[color:"orange"]Abrubt Closed Ending[/color]

The ending of a demo is supposed to make you want to play more, and I don't think the BD demo succeeded in this aspect as much as DD. You see, when you finish the BD demo, it's done, it's over. The only think you're left wondering about is what lies at the bottom of that pit?

The DD demo on the other hand made sure that you got plenty of quests and instructions for after the demo. This was simply a very clever move, because you now had these jobs, and instinctively, you wanted to finish them. But the only way to do that was to buy the full game.


[color:"orange"]Conclusion to this all:[/color]

Larian crew, I am not saying <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> will be a worse game than <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />, oh no. Quite the contrary as I believe it will be a far better and superiour game that might just aswell be your big break; the game that will turn you from a underdog company with great games, to a massively popular company with a big budget for even better games.

But to sell a game, you need good publicity. Getting high scores in magazines doesn't seem to be enough, as most people try before they buy a game. What is my point? The demo really has to affect the player in a positive way for him to get interested in the game. I guess I'm just really worried that alot of people who play the demo will get a false image of the awesomeness of the full game.

So yeah, there you have it. This actually turned out to be longer than I thought it would be. Oh well, wether anyone can actually be bothered to read all this is another question <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

1. agree this is more of a teaser demo
2. agree but thats the story. Act 2 must have such things
3. well thats just the story. I would have liked that you at first played alone for a while then get caputed by samuel and then the rest. I would call this act 0
4. agree don't care about the guard. but the DK voice is not what is should be and that for a main char
5. At first you have to do some searching but it lears quick in my book
6. one thing I miss in the music is a voice. In DD theire was this beautifull voice. melodies are allright in my book
7. well if it wal longer it wouldn't have stopped so soon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Actually it's a good sign that people find the demo to short, it's a sign that they want more.

It would be worse if all would say that they find the demo too long. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

And personally I find the music really superb <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> , and what do you expect? that all the songs are allready in the demo?

Morbo sees it infront his eyes:

Ohh come on I was at the end of Act 4 in the demo and then it said the demo ended. I want that final animation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

I think they have done a good job not exposing too much of the story of the full game. A Lot of to discover in the full game.

i actually like the story in the demo. try ing to get the hell out of there!

you are fighting your way out of a demo. but yes, there should be more. like a prisoner giving you a note, and saying, can you give this to someone on the oustide, like his mother, or father.

or you see imps, or a big baddie get away and you try to follow.

more stuff like that !!!

and I think some day Larian will be a big company or at least populer with big budget games, so here we go.

Larian, when you are big and bold
when you have ALOT money, i hope you wont be cold
remember us, the fans
even if you have big plans

we have stuck by you
even cleaning up the gnorfs big poo.
we given our good luck
to make sure that your came does not suck.

Actually, if you listen to the music, there is a voice after a few minutes. The song reaches a sort of climax at that point.



You got me wrong. I really like the music, but I don't think it fits the game right. And I wasn't making a big deal out about the demo only having 2 songs... I was simply pointing it out. But now that you mention it, Kirill's music is always welcome :P So more would have indeed been better.



Sure. Everyone who has the full version of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> knows that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> will be great, but I'm just worrying that the people who don't will not have the urge to play on, and buy the full game.



Exactly!

1)[color:"orange"]The length of the demo.[/color]

I liked the length of the Divinity demo, but then again it was quite a bit to repeat when the game came out. There are people struggling to download the BD demo on dial-up. Maybe the maps/voices/etc for the next level would have significantly increased the demo size? The BD demo was a little short, but long enough to get a feel for the game and its controls. I've certainly discounted games after playing the demo less than 2 hours.

FWIW, I downloaded the 240MB demo for the adventure game "Broken Sword - The Sleeping Dragon", which contained an opening cinematic, 5 minutes for a couple puzzles, 5 or 10 minutes just of jumping and climbing up a cliff face, then the closing cut scene. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />


2)[color:"orange"] Lack of typical Divinity story-twists and sudden plot changes in story[/color]

I agree, though I'm not sure what would fit well into a prison setting.


3)[color:"orange"]Setting and locations[/color]

Lack of a friendly base kind of sets the mood for the game. More books or more involvement with another prisoner would be nice, though.


"as most people try before they buy a game."

No they don't. Most people online with a fast internet connection would try demos first, but there is way too much crap being made and sold for most people to be trying things first. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

they just pirate <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

Yes, that ofcourse is another major issue for Beyond Divinity... It seems people don't feel like buying single player games anymore, unless it's on a console.

Raze -> There's other means of getting a demo, other than downloading it. Alot of magazines give a demo-disk.

But I agree with one thing though: Having to go through the first bit of the game again wasn't very pleasant. But I still say it was a great demo, because it was the reason I bought the full game.

let's counter the starting post.
some reasons why the BD demo is better...

1)[color:"orange"]It works[/color]
The beyond divinity demo immediately worked unlike the DD demo which I downloaded 3 times from different sites all being corrupt or crashing at the installation. 6 months later I gave it another try and 2 corrupt files later I finally managed to install the demo. No such hassle this time.

2)[color:"orange"]It gets the basics across well[/color]
Since this game is a bit more complex then DD I believe they did a superb job just getting people acquinted with the game.

3)[color:"orange"]Less spoilers[/color]
I believed the DD demo gave away too much information, I got the feeling I already played a third of the game (which it wasn't) and after finishing the demo I was actually wondering wether the demo svae game would work for the final product since I didn't want to go through it all again.

4)[color:"orange"]More original[/color]
While the DD demo started off pretty original you quickly entered the catacombs and to be really honest that was just plain unoriginal. It made me doubt the game actually, I mean a rpg and catacombs/cellars who hasn't seen that already a thousand times. Luckily the reviews made it clear that the complete game wasn't all rpg cliche's. The BD divinity doesn't fall into the trap of rpg cliche, okay trapped in a prison is something we have seen before but the surroundings and the connection with the DK makes it feel original.

and just like the topic starter, this is purely my own opinion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

good point here:

The thing about the intro music is that most of the time, the player will only hear the first 15 seconds of it, while he's loading his game, so the song has to be gripping from the beginning, like in DD.

Good and valid pionts HappyAlien <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

yes, and this one, the AI is a lot harder.

HappyAlien-> Well, I suppose you're right there. But your first point... Well, the game ran fine for me the first time, and I haven't really heard anyone else say the demo got corrupted, so it might have been an accedental case just for you. But fair enough, anyway.

Buliwyf -> Thanks

What he said... ^

a reason BD is better DD demo


in DD demo your rep started as 0, in BD demo your rep starts at 51! thats almost as high as you could get it DD full game! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Ok, but I don't see how that makes BD a better demo though... It's just a number that barely has any affect on the demo... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

so! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

As good as DD was (and as good as I hope BD will be despite my disappointment with the demo), originality isn't really a strong point. Prison escape sequences are nothing new (BG2, Lionheart - even Fallout 3 was going to start with a prison escape). Lionheart even has a bonded spirit who makes sarcastic comments (depending on the character build). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />