This is not about diablo, but the BD demo. Anyway, you forget energy shield,ice blast and chilling armor(=very good). Also you cannot discount firebolt and the lot, because you have to use these in the early lvls, so you did actually use them.
You missed similar points about the other classes.
Dude, you are comparing D2 with BD! I have to rant about D2, don't I? *shrug*
You don't have to use firebolts in the early level. I have done Sorceress using bows till they reach level 18 with relative ease.
And nope, I don't going to dump my entire repository of D2 knowledge on this page. It's a FAQ, not a competition to see who knows D2 better. And I suppose I 'dump' enough to get my point across.
If you take the mage class in BD now, I really find only 2 skills: missile or instant spells in any of 4 elemental types. If you hated D2 then how is that good?
Remind me next time to consider when to spend 0.000005% of my lifespan typing out a post only not have it read in its entirely. Click on the "Show All Skillpath" button at the bottom of the panel and see. Last I check there is:
Elemental - Focused
Elemental - Missile
Elemental - Radius
Elemental - Defense - Reflection - Self
Elemental - Defense - Deflection - Self
Elemental - Defense - Reflection - Party
Elemental - Defense - Delfection - Party
Elemental - Weaken - Spread
Elemental - Weaken - Circle
Elemental - Weaken - Focused
There are 4 elements in BD. There are 7 groupings. That's
THIRTY-TWO skills. Now, a skill can consist of more than one element. So technically speaking, you can have 4 to the power of seven number of skills!
And that's all the Elemental aspect. There's also the Body and Summoning Dolls. Granted, the warrior and survivor skills are not that customisable, but just for wizards alone, this is not bad.
Point is - Diablo II has only the illusion of depth.
I really missed this illusion in the BD demo. A demo is supposed to make the player hot for the full version!
I think many players who DL this demo will see even less than I did. I made an effort playing all three classes and finishing the demo. This is what I saw.
Since you want to compare demos, let compare demos. I was on the Battle.Net trial for D2. There's only one class, and two skills - Bash and Double Swing. And have you clicked on the Show All Skillpaths? That's enough to make me shiver. Actually, I don't know about you, but the game is already enough to make me hot. It shows the potential of the skill system clearly.
Already, in the second room you get a moral decision to make - to kill the imp or to let him go? Do you help the Skull to get his revenge on Fergus, or simply sneak pass the torture-master?
But that's not real RP is it? Even in diablo you can choose to run from a random encounter, I suppose.
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Please don't hang out a decoy to distract, No, not computer game, save for Dungeon-mastered NWN, is a true role-playing game if you defined RPG as that of pen and paper type. The point is there's a hint of role-playing in BD. And yes, you can choose to run away from a fight in Diablo II. Point being? Is that, erh, true "RP"? You used "Even" at the beginning of your sentence, which suggests that you can't do that in BD.
Since you brought NWN into it, a nice RP situation is when you need to defend a barbarian accused of murder in court and you have the choice of bribing the jury and witnesses or find out what really happened. Or even mess up the defense deliberately. This is from NWN chapter2. There's more of such subquests in NWN and it's expansions. Yes, you have to follow the main quest line but you still have some freedom while doing that.
I got bored of it in chapter 1. Went on to play Elegia and Penutlimta series.
As it is now, with this demo as BD cannot even compare to NWN, sorry. Back to hack and slash comparison.
NWN. No, no, you don't want to get me started on it. The core campagin is the most generic fantasy role-playing triple which they can throw to the ground. The plot, at the beginning, is lifeless. Your actions, at most, shift your alignments. But no, no, this is about BD and its comparison to hack and slash, so let me state once more -
BD is
not just hack and slash.
At the bottom of the skill panel there is an option for you to show all the avaliable, unlocked skill paths. See for yourself.
I did. 2 skills for a mage tree(missile or instant) + the warrior skill tree because the knight weas a warrior.
With a ranger only 4 survivor skills and the warrior skills.
With a warrior only weapon specialistaion for both myself and the DK.
That's the demo.
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I see what you see not,
vision milky, then eyes rot.
If I want to spite you, I can show you what I see. But no, I don't have the time for that. I already listed the wizard's skill tree above. You are missing the survivor's traps and talents tree, the warrior's craftmanship->repair, talent, shamantic magic and natural magic for the wizard.
"A hint at RPing" - a hint? Yep, a pretty good damn hint for a half an hour demo. There's already much more role-playing moments concentrated within the demo than some complete games. Diablo II don't even have any rare dialogue sequences - and don't get me started on NWN, especially the first core campagin. Curse in anyway you like, but Fenwick will still insist you are the best choice for the job. Illusion of a choice.
The tiny hint is not enough IMO. In NWN you can atleast threaten quest givers to give you more money, if you play an evil villain. Then there's real dialogue in some subquests, especially chapter 2 and 3. Both chapters were pretty good for crpg standards. You could also rob almost any NPC in the game through threats... Etc. etc.
Nothing like that in this demo.
Threaten quest givers - at most an alignment shift. Have no consquence on the plot.
Look, chapter 1 of NWN put me to sleep already. Look, as I have stated elsewhere on the board, the demo is
not perfect, but griping about a demo seems to making a balrog out from an orc.
So if you say the full game will be much better, than I would suggest a better demo.
A game demo is like PR so you need to show a sample of the very best. This demo turned me off and that's not a good sign.
Now you have raised a very interesting question. The demo is such because the game begins as such. Shall the designers design the game with the demo in mind? How else will someone starts the game? Or are you suggesting the developers create a solely-demo level and clocks in additional development time?
It seems that you are expecting hardcore hard n slash action and are rather put off by the slow pace. For me, there's enough blood-shed already.
Anyway, you and I seem to be on different frequencies, and seriously, this debate shall end now. I see no point going on. Anyway, it's very interesting to see other's RPG experiences and expectations.
BTW, I don't loathe D2 at the beginning, but after 10 iterations of patches I give up. I just hate the NWN core campagins, but then I always hate D&D (don't ask me why I get the game), but the custom modules are a blast, especially Elegia and Penultimata.
I think the demo is adequate for me, and hey, since we both are not prepared to change our mind, why not shall leave it be and sleeps happily.
