well I always go to 5, but for tingalf and the armorer (not the blacksmith, the armoer) level 4. oh, and have a bucket, so you pickpocket from them into the bucket, then keep throwing hte bucket till you get away, load it all up into you, then sell the bad stuff to geoff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />